The future of the Score Editor

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 8, Cubase Artist 8 and Cubase Elements 8 here.
Post Reply
User avatar
TheMaestro
Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Contact:

The future of the Score Editor

Post by TheMaestro » Fri May 20, 2016 10:08 am

Dear Steinberg,

The Score Editor in Cubase has not been updated for a long time, and I wonder if it will ever be in the future.

Now with the announcement of Dorico, more than ever questions are been raised about the fate of this part of Cubase.

What are your plans about the integration of Dorico into Cubase/Nuendo ?
Is Dorico expected to completely replace the Score Editor over time ?

An official statement about the future of the Score Editor would be more than welcome.

Regards
Last edited by TheMaestro on Wed May 25, 2016 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cubase Pro 10 | Halion 6.1 | VEP 7
Windows 10 x64 | i7 920 | 48GB RAM | M-AUDIO Delta 1010LT

User avatar
raino
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by raino » Fri May 20, 2016 7:08 pm

TheMaestro wrote:Dear Steinberg,

The Score Editor in Cubase has not been updated for a long time, and I wonder if it will ever be in the future.

Now with the announcement of Dorico, more than ever questions are been raised about the fate of this part of Cubase.

What are your plans about the integration of Dorico into Cubase/Nuendo ?
Is Dorico excepted to completely replace the Score Editor over time ?

An official statement about the future of the Score Editor would be more than welcome.

Regards
Over on the new Dorico forum they did suggest some future Cubendo integration. But it was pretty vague and distant sounding as their current focus is on getting the standalone product right. The impression I got is that there are no real plans about any of this since they are fully booked on what's happening now - but there are aspirations.
rodger

Cubase Pro 10.0.40, Win10 Home, Halion6, BFD3, GPO, Komplete Ultimate 9, Waves Gold, Misc. other

i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX970, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2

User avatar
TheMaestro
Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by TheMaestro » Fri May 20, 2016 10:34 pm

raino wrote:The impression I got is that there are no real plans about any of this since they are fully booked on what's happening now
Do you really think that for probably more than 4 years, they've been investing in such a large project with multiple teams to create a new scoring software, without having any idea where they were headed in regard to the existing one ?
Cubase Pro 10 | Halion 6.1 | VEP 7
Windows 10 x64 | i7 920 | 48GB RAM | M-AUDIO Delta 1010LT

User avatar
raino
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by raino » Sat May 21, 2016 12:33 am

TheMaestro wrote:
raino wrote:The impression I got is that there are no real plans about any of this since they are fully booked on what's happening now
Do you really think that for probably more than 4 years, they've been investing in such a large project with multiple teams to create a new scoring software, without having any precise idea where they were heading in regard to the existing one ?
Yeah I do. It's all speculation of course. But it is informed by having worked along side tech developers in a previous life and seeing how their planning works. And also trying to read between the lines on what the developers are saying. Looking at Daniel's posts its clear he has a huge list of work for things to be incorporated into the first few versions. Steinberg wouldn't expend the resources they have to replace Cubase's Score Editor. That investment only makes sense if they are aiming to become the dominant professional scoring application. That's job #1. Integration with Cubase only becomes viable once Dorico is an established product - and remember it is entering a market with two very entrenched competitors. A general intention to eventually integrate Dorico into Cubase seems likely, but anything more detailed would be putting the cart before the horse.
viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97356
Steinberg is unlikely to even hint about integration until they know Dorico is a successful product.

If I were to guess (i.e. make something up) I think it will go down like this.
Dorico gets released and obtains a decent market share.
Several new versions are released with improvements.
A low cost lite version gets released.
After the lite version becomes established it gets integrated into Cubase.
rodger

Cubase Pro 10.0.40, Win10 Home, Halion6, BFD3, GPO, Komplete Ultimate 9, Waves Gold, Misc. other

i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX970, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2

Scott Collins
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by Scott Collins » Sat May 21, 2016 5:45 pm

The score editor is my one major frustration with Cubase. I don't find it usable. I'm forced to do all my scoring in Sibelius, but its main limitation is the difficulty in working with MIDI controller data (it can to a degree.) So, I'm forced with a workable but inefficient and frustrating process of scoring in Sibelius, exporting MIDI to Cubase, and then editing MIDI data in Cubase (example: controller data for EW Orchestral dynamic crossfade patches.)

I don't at all expect (or need) the editor in Cubase to be anywhere near as sophisticated as Sibelius, but it doesn't seem to meet even basic needs. Just tried it again this morning (first time in a year or so.) I WANT to be able to use it... glad to learn. It took me a while to figure out how to set the Key Signature (I didn't see this in the operation manual - searched online and found I needed to enable the Inspector.) Set the time signature to 6/8 and started writing a few measures. A bit clunky but it was OK. Then I needed to insert a quarter note on the 4th eighth note position of the measure. Cubase simply won't allow it - I can insert it on the 5th eighth note position, but not the fourth. Perhaps there is some setting somewhere that I could tweak, but at that point I'm just too frustrated.

In Sibelius, the work above is highly intuitive and as easy as I can imagine it can be.

For this reason and this reason only I will be looking at Pro Tools, as I understand it has a light Sibelius integration. I simply want to work entirely within a scoring environment when desired, then flip into MIDI editing and/or audio recording when needed - all in the same program.

User avatar
TheMaestro
Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by TheMaestro » Mon May 23, 2016 9:59 am

Scott Collins wrote:Then I needed to insert a quarter note on the 4th eighth note position of the measure. Cubase simply won't allow it - I can insert it on the 5th eighth note position, but not the fourth. Perhaps there is some setting somewhere ..
Absolutely, there is a setting : Quantize.

The Score Editor is probably not as intuitive as the other programs at first sight, but once you know how things work you can work smoothly with it.
It's a little bit like ... Photoshop. This software, is basically not intuitive at all. But when you learn how to work with, you find everything as it should be and logical.

I gave Sibelius and Finale a try (as well as other scoring programs) multiple times in the past, and I always ended up going back to Cubase. Why ?
Mainly because :
1- it is as powerful and professional as the other two
2- The power of Cubase audio engine & MIDI
3- Expression Maps !
Cubase Pro 10 | Halion 6.1 | VEP 7
Windows 10 x64 | i7 920 | 48GB RAM | M-AUDIO Delta 1010LT

Scott Collins
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by Scott Collins » Tue May 24, 2016 1:07 pm

That's good feedback... OK, I'm going to go back and try working with it a bit more. Will check the Quantize function as you pointed out (I've used this occasionally when adjusting drum parts, but the majority of the time all my MIDI is done in Sibelius and I'm just recording audio parts in Cubase.)

User avatar
vic_france
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3330
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:16 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by vic_france » Tue May 24, 2016 5:17 pm

Scott Collins wrote:That's good feedback... OK, I'm going to go back and try working with it a bit more. Will check the Quantize function as you pointed out (I've used this occasionally when adjusting drum parts, but the majority of the time all my MIDI is done in Sibelius and I'm just recording audio parts in Cubase.)
N.B. The Maestro is talking about Display Quantize here (i.e. a Score function, not the regular MIDI Quantize ;) ).
Mac Pro Quad-Core (2009) 2.66 GHz | 16GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3|MOTU Midi Timepiece AV | Mac OS X 10.9.5 | Cubase 9.5.0| Logic Pro X 10.2.2| ProTools 11.3.1| Ableton Live 9.7.5| Reaper 562 | Studio One Pro 3.5.1

indiescore
Member
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:47 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by indiescore » Wed May 25, 2016 12:27 am

raino wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:
raino wrote:The impression I got is that there are no real plans about any of this since they are fully booked on what's happening now
Do you really think that for probably more than 4 years, they've been investing in such a large project with multiple teams to create a new scoring software, without having any precise idea where they were heading in regard to the existing one ?
Yeah I do. It's all speculation of course. But it is informed by having worked along side tech developers in a previous life and seeing how their planning works. And also trying to read between the lines on what the developers are saying. Looking at Daniel's posts its clear he has a huge list of work for things to be incorporated into the first few versions. Steinberg wouldn't expend the resources they have to replace Cubase's Score Editor. That investment only makes sense if they are aiming to become the dominant professional scoring application. That's job #1. Integration with Cubase only becomes viable once Dorico is an established product - and remember it is entering a market with two very entrenched competitors. A general intention to eventually integrate Dorico into Cubase seems likely, but anything more detailed would be putting the cart before the horse.
viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97356
Steinberg is unlikely to even hint about integration until they know Dorico is a successful product.

If I were to guess (i.e. make something up) I think it will go down like this.
Dorico gets released and obtains a decent market share.
Several new versions are released with improvements.
A low cost lite version gets released.
After the lite version becomes established it gets integrated into Cubase.

This is also speculation and opinion, instead of development let's look at this from the business perspective, as business decisions made in advance drive the development budget and sales planning. I think a companion release as a vst or rewire version ( as an add on to Cubase with a cost or not , I don't know ) to replace the current score editor makes complete sense.

1 it gives the notation program
a huge built in audience to help capture market share, 2 it would increase Cubase appeal, sales. 3. At the same time The full standalone version could offer more features and go after the leading competitors.

Also the full version looks like a closed system, if this is true it's of no use to me for mockups or just simply using notation instead of midi to write and play back. 3rd party orchestral libraries blow away stienbergs, and we need a Sibelius approach to send midi out to vst of our choice. Could some one fact check this ?
Windows 10 w latest update
Cubase 10 pro w latest update
INTEL CORE I7-4790K 4.0 GHZ + 10 % over clock , water cooled.
32GB DDR3 2133 MHZ
GIGABYTE Z97X-GAMING 7 Motherboard
Project drive M.2. Form factor , SSD
2x internal SSD, 2x external SSD USB 3

User avatar
raino
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by raino » Wed May 25, 2016 6:57 pm

indiescore wrote: This is also speculation and opinion, instead of development let's look at this from the business perspective, as business decisions made in advance drive the development budget and sales planning. I think a companion release as a vst or rewire version ( as an add on to Cubase with a cost or not , I don't know ) to replace the current score editor makes complete sense.

1 it gives the notation program
a huge built in audience to help capture market share, 2 it would increase Cubase appeal, sales. 3. At the same time The full standalone version could offer more features and go after the leading competitors.

Also the full version looks like a closed system, if this is true it's of no use to me for mockups or just simply using notation instead of midi to write and play back. 3rd party orchestral libraries blow away stienbergs, and we need a Sibelius approach to send midi out to vst of our choice. Could some one fact check this ?
Regarding Rewire
viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97326

It will support 3rd party VSTi's, although only for VST3 and known well behaved VST2 instruments
viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97323
rodger

Cubase Pro 10.0.40, Win10 Home, Halion6, BFD3, GPO, Komplete Ultimate 9, Waves Gold, Misc. other

i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX970, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2

User avatar
CSharpDude
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:52 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by CSharpDude » Thu May 26, 2016 12:10 am

Some thoughts:

The 2 products (Dorico and the Score editor in Cubase) can live side by side. Avid has done so with Sibeius and Pro Tools.
Perhaps we'll see something like what it seems Presonus is doing with Notion and Studio One? Last year they added the ability in Notion to exports stems for editing in Studio One. They're rumored to be creating a true integration between the 2 products.

I do hope the Score Editor continues on and does not fall by the wayside. It is an important part of Cubase for me.

Dave
My Sound Cloud
Website
Youtube Channel

Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything.
Plato

Cubase 9 Pro, Sonar Pro, Akai Pro MPK 88, i7-4770K, ASUS Z87-PRO V, 32GB SDRAM 1866, SAMSUNG 840 EVO 500GB SSD, 2 - WD BLACK 2TB, Samsung USB 3.0 SSD, Win 10 Pro 64, GTX 1070 8GB, Presonus USB Audio Interface, TouchOSC / Lemur on Android Tablet

Scott Collins
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by Scott Collins » Sat May 28, 2016 4:45 pm

TheMaestro wrote: Absolutely, there is a setting : Quantize.

The Score Editor is probably not as intuitive as the other programs at first sight, but once you know how things work you can work smoothly with it.
It's a little bit like ... Photoshop. This software, is basically not intuitive at all. But when you learn how to work with, you find everything as it should be and logical.

I gave Sibelius and Finale a try (as well as other scoring programs) multiple times in the past, and I always ended up going back to Cubase. Why ?
Mainly because :
1- it is as powerful and professional as the other two
2- The power of Cubase audio engine & MIDI
3- Expression Maps !
I'm spending some time this weekend with it (and the manual) and will be giving it a serious try. If I may ask you (or anyone kind enough to reply) one general question: do you score drums with it and, if so, how does it work for you?

I can see punting here and just using a standard MIDI view with a drum map, but I'd prefer not to. In Sibelius I went through a tedious process of setting up my own soundsets for BFD and my own custom drum staves. It took way too long and was frustrating, but ultimately I got exactly what I wanted. I can score for every aspect of the drumset in an intuitive way (even high hat articulations, shank vs. tip, etc, etc.)

User avatar
Ricardo79
New Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:33 am
Contact:

Re: The future of the Score Editor

Post by Ricardo79 » Sun May 29, 2016 5:48 am

TheMaestro wrote:Dear Steinberg,
The Score Editor in Cubase has not been updated for a long time, and I wonder if it will ever be in the future.
Now with the announcement of Dorico, more than ever questions are been raised about the fate of this part of Cubase.
What are your plans about the integration of Dorico into Cubase/Nuendo ?
Is Dorico expected to completely replace the Score Editor over time ?
An official statement about the future of the Score Editor would be more than welcome.
Regards
As others have noted, it will be interesting to see what effect Dorico has on future versions of Cubase. I am relatively happy with the Cubase 8.5 Score Editor; it is fairly reliable and features like the "Make Chord Symbol" function really save time when I am composing. That said, it is clear that score editors are notoriously complicated and do not always present things as we desire so they are constantly evolving. For someone like me who uses Cubase for composing and recording, but doesn't require it to provide sheet music to an orchestra, Cubase 8.5 strikes a good balance IMHO.

Cheers.
Cubase 9.5 Pro: RME UCX: 16GB: i7-3820: Geoforce 210 :Win 10 Home 64: LG 25 Ultrawide+Samsung BX2440

Post Reply

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests