I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

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Thomas W. Bethel
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I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:36 pm

One crash after another crash after another crash. So I uninstalled WL 8.5.3, trashed all the preferences and reinstalled the program. No luck - it still crashes. i ordered up the parts to make a new computer from the ground up using all current technology. The computer parts will be here tomorrow and I will build the computer and put WL 8.5.3 on it along with my plugins. If it still is having problems then I give up. I have three projects I have to get out and cannot do any of them. WL does not play well, at all, with Fab plugins they crash or freeze or...crash WL. There latest trick is that when you click on the EQ to change the level or the "Q" or the frequency it opens multiple frequencies all one on top of the other. Then there is the problem of disappearing graphics and the ongoing problem of not being able to do a NR process on one part of a file and then do the same thing over again on another part of the same file. YUCK!

I am omewhat upset and disappointed that a program I have loved since 1.6 suddenly is a mess.

FWIW
Thomas W. Bethel
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Room With a View Productions
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by PG » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:59 am

Try without using the Fab plugins...
Philippe

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:34 am

PG wrote:Try without using the Fab plugins...
I cannot get it to stay working even with NO plugins. Something is seriously wrong with the current version and I have three projects to get done. Ever since version 7 was ported over to the MAC these kinds of problems have plagued WL. Other DAW programs don't have problems with third party plugins why does WL? I have been with WL since version 1.6 and have always admired and respected it for being a GREAT DAW program but now it crashes more than it runs. Looking around the internet I see that I am not alone in my feelings that there is something really wrong. Both the Mac users and the PC users are having problems. It needs to get fixed and soon. I know you are the best so...can you figure out what is wrong and fix it?
Thomas W. Bethel
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Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by PG » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:14 pm

I cannot get it to stay working even with NO plugins.
Hmm. If that's really the case, I would like to see crash dumps in this no-plugin context.
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:28 am

I have had the 'white screen' issue with no plugs. It turned out to be a faulty keyboard. Replaced it (and the mouse just in case) and everything was fine.

I can tell you this was the last thing we looked for and discovered it by chance.

Windoze 7 Professional.
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by WYCA » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:19 am

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:One crash after another crash after another crash .. upset and disappointed that a program I have loved since 1.6 suddenly is a mess.
Disappointed? Tell me about it, soul sister!

We have over ten WL 8 DAWs and they ALL crash, ALL day, EVERY day.
Plugs or no plugs. And it ain't cuz of a pesky keyboard.

THIS IS A MESS.

Its one thing to have all our engineers endure these vexing, counterproductive face-slaps while trying to complete their work. But it is totally F'd when you have VIP clients in the room and WaveLab takes a dump in its diapers 3 times during the session just cuz you hit the play button. Totally blows client confidence. This is bad biz.

So now we have this crappy new set of problems to add to the old, unresolved ones. Little things that should get patched within weeks of their report, not years (or never).

WL gets lots of things right, but the things that are presently going wrong are just crap. Please excuse me as my use of swear words increases. Being cordial does not seem to have been successful in impressing our problems and frustrations. SH1T rolls down hill. I am just passing on what is getting dished to me.

Disappointed.

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:48 am

WYCA wrote:
Thomas W. Bethel wrote:One crash after another crash after another crash .. upset and disappointed that a program I have loved since 1.6 suddenly is a mess.
Disappointed? Tell me about it, soul sister!

We have over ten WL 8 DAWs and they ALL crash, ALL day, EVERY day.
Plugs or no plugs. And it ain't cuz of a pesky keyboard.

THIS IS A MESS.

Its one thing to have all our engineers endure these vexing, counterproductive face-slaps while trying to complete their work. But it is totally F'd when you have VIP clients in the room and WaveLab takes a dump in its diapers 3 times during the session just cuz you hit the play button. Totally blows client confidence. This is bad biz.

So now we have this crappy new set of problems to add to the old, unresolved ones. Little things that should get patched within weeks of their report, not years (or never).

WL gets lots of things right, but the things that are presently going wrong are just crap. Please excuse me as my use of swear words increases. Being cordial does not seem to have been successful in impressing our problems and frustrations. SH1T rolls down hill. I am just passing on what is getting dished to me.

Disappointed.
WOW 8 WL installs and they are all doing the same thing. OUCH!!!

WL 6 was always pretty darn stable. Then 7 came out and it was a royal mess. So I stayed with 6. When 8 came out I set up my computer for dual boot and put Windows 7 on one partition and left Windows XP on the other. My idea was that if I started having problems with 8 I could switch back to 6 just by restarting my machine. WL8 was OK but not really my cup of tea so I kept using WL6. When the update to 8.5 came out I though I would switch over to that and for a while it seemed to work OK. There was still a lot I did not like. When WL 8.5.2 came out I thought my problems were solved and it had a lot of features I was wishing for since WL7. then I upgraded to WL 8.5.3 and at first it seemed OK but then the constant crashes and freezes that just kept getting worse and worse the more I used the program. WL does not like a lot of third party plugins and is seem to have a lot of problems with anything from FAB filters. Since these are plugins I use everyday it is not a good thing.


Yesterday I uninstalled all my video drivers for my NVIDIA card as well as the drivers for my RME sound card. I booted the computer in Windows 7 at 640 by 480 and WL seemed a lot more stable. I installed the drivers for my sound card. I then installed the drivers for my video card but only the drivers for the card and no "game playing" add ons. Now at least WL is working and playing back. I used it all afternoon. It still seems to have problems with certain plugins and I wish PG and the plugin authors would get on the same page and soon. I also have a copy of the latest version of Samplitude and it never had the manifest problems that WL seems to be plagued with. So now I have working copy of WL that still has some "white screen" moments and still does not play well (literally) with certain plugins but I at least can get some work done.

Whew what a mess.

Is is possible we could start a "crowd funding" project and get a couple of millions for PG to design a new DAW that does not have all the problems and works? Maybe if he was able to work on it by himself and not have Steinberg and Yamaha hovering over him he could come up with a GREAT program. I like a lot of the new features of WL 8 but long for the more "stable" days of WL6. Just an idea....

Excuse me I have some work to get done.
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:59 am

OK ... I now have my first run of crashes guys.

Repeatable.

Montage. 24 bit 48 kHz. No plugs Create two tracks. Mute one track. Press play = white screen and crash.

Same scenario, 16 bit 44.1 kHz. Plays fine.

My system still also has WL 8. In WL 8 Montage. Again 24 bit 48 kHz. Again No plugs Again Create two tracks. Again mute one track. Press play = Plays fine. No white screen or crash.

No idea why this happens.

Where do I find the crash dump for this?
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by LutzR » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:57 pm

Do all these crashes have something to do with the latest update?
I am still on 8.5.2 and don't have any crashes at all...
Lutz
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Vocalpoint » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:22 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: Is is possible we could start a "crowd funding" project and get a couple of millions for PG to design a new DAW that does not have all the problems and works?
At it's current price point - I have "crowd funded" Steinberg and Wavelab enough over the years - thank you very much.

My own opinion is that it's time for PG to get out of "one man show" mode and get real with the WL internals and discuss the "processing" part of the app with his Steinberg colleagues or ANYBODY at any other company - like say Presonus and fix WL to conform to industry standards rather than using whatever he has cooked up now.

No other app here that I have (or have had - like Nuendo etc) has ever barfed on playback or locked up with RME drivers (my current woe) so this tells me that WL and WL alone - has a problem on several levels.

If I experienced all my other apps locking using with the same interface (RME Multiface II) then I would say RME has a problem - but I believe WL is the problem. With drivers, with plugin interfaces etc.

Whatever internals it is using - it's becoming very clear (especially with 8.x) that WL does not play well with the rest of the industry and these woes will continue (crashes, playback lockups, bizarre plugin UIs etc etc) unless something is done to fix WL.

And by fix - I mean take the exact code that Nuendo or Cubase uses for ASIO and Plugin interface display and stick it right into WL.

This app used to be the standard for stability and now (its crazy ass UI not withstanding) - it's becoming a has been.

This is a primary reason that I am moving most of my workflow out of WL and over to Studio One. I feel like I simply cannot trust WL to be there when I need it to be.

VP
Bruce McDonald
Vocalpoint Studios
Calgary, AB Canada

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Brain » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:39 pm

Guys, no insult intended, but I am hearing lots of complaints, but only 1 repeatable problem listed. To find any problems, the routines you used prior to crash, what keys, functions, how many tracks, samplerate, etc. are needed for anyone to find the problems.

I for one use WL8.5 every day and I have NEVER had a crash.
To be fair I only use it to create CDs and to burn Data archives.
Never use plugins, no processing, just Load ADL, Space audio 3 seconds apart,
and burn CD.

So, if there are issues, it seems that it is for people who use WL in a more intense way or,
have more complicated computer setups than we do.

Details matter. maybe post some of your projects so others can test them.
More data, better solutions

Later,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Vocalpoint » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:45 pm

Brain wrote:Guys, no insult intended, but I am hearing lots of complaints, but only 1 repeatable problem listed. To find any problems, the routines you used prior to crash, what keys, functions, how many tracks, samplerate, etc. are needed for anyone to find the problems.
I have documented my RME "case" many a time to no avail. And also no insult intended - but I do not have the time to sit in this forum all day and list routines and use cases over and over. Once should be enough. But in the spirit of things - here is it:

1. Open 16/44 wav file in Wavelab and hit play
2. Track plays
3. Then - with other track still visible - open any 24/96 wav file in Wavelab and hit play
4. 73% of the time - WL freezes
5. 27% of the time - Wl groans and wheezes and drapes the interface in molasses and then finally manages to play the file.

This is repeatable and nothing has been done. It's been happening to me for at least 2-3 years now.

Do the above in any other audio app that I have - using my one and only RME interface - and the two files play effortlessly like peas in a pod. Go figure.

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:49 am

Brain wrote: So, if there are issues, it seems that it is for people who use WL in a more intense way or,
have more complicated computer setups than we do.

Details matter. maybe post some of your projects so others can test them.
More data, better solutions

Later,
Brain
Personally, I use WL in what I think would objectively be regarded as an 'intense way'. Every day.

For some reason, I do not have the level of issues that have plagued some users (the 1s and 0s are smiling on me). But, what happened to me last night in a highly pressured environment was not cool.

And, FWIW, I can tell you that WYCA's team KNOW what they are doing.

I do agree that crash dumps etc would be a good start.

I am still waiting to learn where I find these for WL?
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by LutzR » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:46 am

LutzR wrote:Do all these crashes have something to do with the latest update?
I am still on 8.5.2 and don't have any crashes at all...
...plus: I am a "hardcore" WL user. I am nearly using every feature, with many plugins - many hours every day.
So, as someone before said: details matter!
BTW, I use a RME HDSP 9632 interface...
Lutz
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:43 am

The way I use WL is for Mastering with two to three plugins. Or I do restoration work again using maybe one plugin at a time. Or I am transferring something off a reel to reel tape or cassette or DAT on to WL. The crashes have all been random.Sometimes I get a white screen, sometimes I get a notice that Wavelab has stopped working. Sometimes my whole computer crashes to a BSOD. When I get eh BSOD is is always something different but usually involves a "mini dump". I have spent hours trying to get WL to crash like it did the last time but with no luck. The one constant is that WL does not seem to play well with FAB plugins. I don't know enough about how programmers work but if this is a known fact couldn't PG pick up the phone or email the guys at FAB and find out why their stuff does not play well with WL. I know I am not the only one who is having problems with FAB Filters and WL it is all over the WWW. There are other plugins that have strange problems with their GUIs and again is it a big problem for all the programmers to talk about problems and FIX THEM! Does this have something to do with "intellectual rights" and programmers can't share information? If it does couldn't they get everyone to sighn a non disclosure contract?

Honestly I would rather PG fix this version of WL before he starts on WL 9 which will probably have its own set of start up problems.

I am half way through my new computer build and hopefully with all state of the art components it will run WL better, but I am not sure if that will be the case if there is something in WL that is causing random crashes.

By the way once you go down the slippery slope of random crashes it seem to get much worse the more you use WL after the crashes have started. Could this be something in the way WL caches its information or stores things in the preferences? Just wondering.FWIW
Thomas W. Bethel
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Room With a View Productions
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:43 am

I guess ... just to allay any doubt ... that I should add that I am still WL 8.5's 'biggest fan'. Love what it can do and how it does it.

It is easy to loose sight of the fact that it has been absolutely rock solid for me now for such a long time across different versions that when something like this surfaces it is, in context, unusual indeed. In fact, if I don't do the things that consistently causes the white screen/crash it still is very stable here.

I am sure that the issues will be resolved.
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:17 am

Brand new super computer. Brand new install of WL 8.5.3. Doing a simple montage. Only the montage and edit widows are open. Press play. WL crashes.

Here is what I have.

ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA - BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive by Asus

Sentey® Power Supply 725w Xpp725-hs / Computer Power Supply ATX / 140mm Fan Sleeve Bearing / 48ampers / 5 Sata / 2 Pci-e 6-2 / SLI Ready / Crossfire Ready / 115-230 Voltage / Power Cord / 3 Years Warranty

Corsair Vengeance Series Black C70 Mid Tower Computer Case (CC-9011016-WW)

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120mm PWM Fan (RR-212E-20PK-R2)

Kingston HyperX FURY 16GB Kit (2x8GB) 1866MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM - Blue (HX318C10FK2/16)

MSI ATX DDR3 2600 LGA 1150 Motherboards H97 GAMING 3

Intel Core i5-4460 LGA 1150 CPU - BX80646I54460

Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-7KE256BW)

Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-75E500B/AM)

WIN 7 PRO SP1 64 Bit OEM 1PK

NVIDIA GT 740 overclocked video card.

My other passion is Fight Simulator and this is the same setup I have for my Flight Simulator that has been running since last spring without a crash or a hiccup. I know there are better/different systems out there and I could have gone with an I7 processor but this is what I decided to do.

The computer is running nicely and when WL runs it is doing saving in one second or less of a 3 minute file and processing that same file in 10 seconds. NICE

Any ideas???

Thanks in advance
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Vocalpoint » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:04 am

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:Any ideas???
Do you have an actual audio interface in this new machine? If so - what is it?

VP
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:59 am

What is the sample rate and bit depth of the montage?

How many tracks on the montage?
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by PG » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:07 am

Under Windows, you can generate one crash dump from WaveLab if you do so:
While pressing the Alternate key (press first and maintain), select "Gobal preferences" from the WaveLab menu with the mouse.
In that case, there is a new tab called "Diagnostics". There you can activate several functions.
Activate the option "Enable crash report", at the bottom. If a crash happens, one crash dump is generated.
Philippe

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Rat » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:23 am

Thank you!

After I finish these urgent jobs I'll try and reproduce a crash for you.

Thank you again ...
Regards

Paul

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:43 am

Vocalpoint wrote:
Thomas W. Bethel wrote:Any ideas???
Do you have an actual audio interface in this new machine? If so - what is it?

VP
Yes it is an RME HDSP 9632 bought from these people http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... dJrMBEg..I moved it over from the other computer.
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:44 am

Rat wrote:What is the sample rate and bit depth of the montage?

How many tracks on the montage?
44.1/24 bit


Stereo/ Two tracks
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:46 am

PG wrote:Under Windows, you can generate one crash dump from WaveLab if you do so:
While pressing the Alternate key (press first and maintain), select "Gobal preferences" from the WaveLab menu with the mouse.
In that case, there is a new tab called "Diagnostics". There you can activate several functions.
Activate the option "Enable crash report", at the bottom. If a crash happens, one crash dump is generated.
Thanks! I will try that.

I tried it and...you have to be in the "track" window and not the montage and you can leave this on all the time with a check mark in the Diagnostics tab. Who knew????
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness.

Celebrating 24 years in business in 2019

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Re: I am starting to get upset with WL 8.5.3

Post by Vocalpoint » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:37 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:Yes it is an RME HDSP 9632 bought from these people http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... dJrMBEg..I moved it over from the other computer.
What RME driver are you using with the new box?

VP
Bruce McDonald
Vocalpoint Studios
Calgary, AB Canada

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