Tempo and Beat Detection...

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Bottomline
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Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by Bottomline » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:15 pm

Is there a built in Beat Detection or Tempo function in WL7? Im probably overlooking something... I see where you can Time Stretch, but it's asking for me to manually input the Tempo...

Thanks....

Jay

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greggybud
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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by greggybud » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:36 am

If you can explain why tempo or beat detection is needed in the mastering process, then it might be considered. Until then, I would assume it is best used in production applications such as Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by markino » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:20 am

Hello,
It might be a good add since the montage can be used creatively (e.g. small radio promos).
Is Ducker useful in mastering? No, probably, but it's there and thank God. Not so strange request to me.
Marco

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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by Bottomline » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:44 pm

I guess for various reasons... If I'm Time Stretching, it would be a value added to be able to discern the Original Tempo instead of the default 120bpms, and the the % function I have yet to explore... To align cross fades (for Mixtape transitions... I do the majority of my loop editing in WL7 (due to lack of Recycle Updates, and Chopping Loops in WL7 forces me to become familiar with the program)... I really dig the Loop tweaker... I dunno whenever you have loop points, you kinda grow to expect Tempo Analysis... Also the Manual references Beat Dector...

I can go on for days...

I appreciate the responses... I take it, it doesn't exist...

uarte
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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by uarte » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:09 am

I also use WaveLab for sound design and chopping/editing parts for remixing with Cubase, Live and PT, so there are numerous times something like tempo and beat detection would be useful. The sub-title marketing of WaveLab is "Audio Editing and Mastering Suite" so I think tempo and beat detection tools could easily fall within that description. We want this to be the ULTIMATE audio editing tool, right? Also, I can see some mastering scenarios where such features could come in handy.

So here's another +1 for PG to consider such tools for addition in future versions. :)

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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by PG » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:00 am

Noted
Philippe

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greggybud
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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by greggybud » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:34 am

As an ME, I have never used beat detection and I have never heard of any ME using such a tool. Production? Absolutely. Mastering/editing? Never.

Obviously you have to draw the line somewhere. Wavelab is at a very good state right now. What is being requested is included in most any DAW correct? Where does one draw the line? Next time someone will suggest adding autotune. Soon you have so much to maintain you can't address the core functionality of your application. I think this is what Cubase has struggled with for years and only recently are starting to correct.

Cubase is overloaded with features that 3rd parties often do much better. But Steinberg markets Cubase as a one-box-does-it all program. For some new users Cubase is all they need. For other new users, over time they discover 3rd party developers that specialize in certain tasks...and do it much better or more efficiently than the enclosed Cubase add-on.

I would much rather see what is currently available in Wavelab7 improved and streamlined especially because there is no user manual. IMO the omission of a operating manual similar to Wavelab6 is the worst thing about Wavelab7. The sad part is had Steinberg just taken the existing Wavelab6 manual and made the necessary changes to transform it into a Wavelab7 manual, it would have not been a large cost.

Bottomline...is there a reason you don't use Cubase or any other DAW for this task?

It's interesting to note Yamaha apparently supports the gradual Cubase-Wavelab integration. It's not like the total utopia integration we had several years ago (before the introduction of Cubase multiple 'undos') but it's coming back. In the newest release of Cubase you can export an audio mixdown and it will automatically open Wavelab. (7.0.1 or higher)
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by Bottomline » Thu May 05, 2011 3:56 pm

Whenever there is a Field where it ask you to input Tempo, I'd assume you expect the Capability... Secondly, let say I was using the Spectrum Editor and needed to add a Time Based Effect to a single word/hit, as described in the WL7 tutorial guide... wouldn't it be nice to detect the Tempo and input that info. I'm sure as an ME, you don't receive Tempo Info... Well what if you client asked for an Added Delay throw at the end... How would you handle this?

I'm not asking for Autotune... I was simply asking if I was over looking something... I'm not sure if WL can detect Pitch, but it mos def and alter pitch...

Anyway, this isnt a request, just a simple question... I don't Steinberg dropped the ball... But the manual references Tempo and Beat Detection... I'm just would like to understand the context, as manuals can be vague...

I'm just happy to have a Manual... My apologies, I'll stick to topics on how to win the Loudness Wars and ungodly RMS Levels...

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Re: Tempo and Beat Detection...

Post by uarte » Fri May 06, 2011 2:14 pm

Greggybud, I agree that we're not asking for auto-tune or too much overlap with a DAW app. No reason for something like that, especially since for most workflows, people would use a DAW for that, etc., or just use a plugin or standalone version of Melodyne, etc. But the concept of tempo and beat detection surely falls within the concept of an "Audio Editing and Mastering Suite" where sound design and wave editing also takes place. Wavelab is the PERFECT place to be chopping up, editing parts, time-compressing of audio files and fine-tuning edit points for chunks of audio, such as loops or other tempo-oriented material, sound fx, sample sets for import into a sampler, etc... particularly because the batch tools make it ideal, etc... it is a natural extension of what some people use Wavelab for. I can think of many scenarios I run into within WaveLab where this could be very, very handy.

Now, if Wavelab were exclusively a "mastering" program, then it would be a harder case to argue, but even then, for mastering, I can see some applications would benefit from tempo and beat detection, as has been mentioned in other posts. Just because you don't ever use such a feature for mastering, doesn't mean there isn't a new, creative application of the idea to mastering that might be relevant to other people... including yourself if the situation ever came up. ;)

Also, surely the fine folks in Hamburg can share some code -- the algorithms in Cubase 6 for similar features could be reviewed and maybe this feature won't take too much time to develop?

I do agree with you, though, that we don't want PG to recreate a DAW. :) But tempo and beat detection are well within the general outline of what Wavelab could (and in my view, should) do.

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