Project

Post general topics related to Nuendo 6 here.
Post Reply
okesta
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 pm
Contact:

Project

Post by okesta » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:56 pm

Hi Guys,

I am having some difficulties with a project i'm editing .

While Playing the playback and trying to zoom in or out from specific , it seems like the system is experiencing some difficulties (like memory issues) and it its slows down significantly.

I have no Plugins in use, my memory chart at the task manager seems very calm, and still the system dosent response sharply to my comandsd which makes it quite difficult to edit a dialog...

I'm using nuendo 6, on a Pc (Intel i7 3.2GHz , 16GB RAM, RME fireface sound card)

I've restart my system already and turn off and back on my asio driver. no change..

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Oren.

User avatar
Brain
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Brain » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:56 pm

If you have a lot of edits, or other "Objects"
look at this thread.....
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... di#p377547

it talks about GDI objects (you can view how many are being created in the window task manager,
and the topic link tells how to check your registry to see what it maximum is set for.

This is just 1 area I can think of right now.

Later,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
2.66 gHz Core2 Quad, XP SP-2
RME HDSP-MADI (primary)
SSL Alphalink MADI-SX, Mixpander-5 (backup)

okesta
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by okesta » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:33 pm

Hey Brian, Tnx for the reply.
I tried it and it didn't help.
One thing i just realized is that the project contains 16 bit file along with 24 bit (both 48KHz) , and that the system's difficulties are with the 24 bit files.
the project set up is at 16 bit, changing it ti 24 didn't change the picture.

Could it be the problem?

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Fredo » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:56 pm

For the system, there isn't any difference between a 16bit and 24 bit file.
The only thing that is "different" is the size.
So it looks like your system has a hard time getting the audio files from the disc, and that it results in a bottleneck.
Like you would be streaming the files over a network.

Fredo

okesta
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by okesta » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:15 am

Thanks Fredo.

It might be the reason, because when i press spacebar to stop playing the sequence, the nuendo disk meter peaks.(it peaks when i press 1 to bring the cursor to marked area as well)
Does it mean my disk is planing to move to next world sometime soon, and that i should replace it? (2 years old, about 50% usage divided into 3 partitions)
Or perhaps is there another way making life easier for him?

Thanks!
Oren.

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Fredo » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:37 am

Maybe you can try a some sort of a speed test to diagnose your computer ...
Try working with a higher buffer size.

Fredo

User avatar
Mattinay
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:49 am
Location: 3rd rock from the sun, turn left, 4 millionth on the right, key is under the mat.
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Mattinay » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:48 am

Okesta - you have partitioned your audio drive, what is on the other two partitions ?
Not an SSD?
\m/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snappy quote>
insert snappy quote </end snappy quote>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Brain
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Brain » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:24 pm

okesta wrote:Thanks Fredo.

It might be the reason, because when i press spacebar to stop playing the sequence, the nuendo disk meter peaks.(it peaks when i press 1 to bring the cursor to marked area as well)
Does it mean my disk is planing to move to next world sometime soon, and that i should replace it? (2 years old, about 50% usage divided into 3 partitions)
Or perhaps is there another way making life easier for him?

Thanks!
Oren.
Oren, what you describe sounds like when I am auditioning an old project stored on DVD, or a project on my hard drive that has 4GB or more of data, or are accessing a project on a server that is experiencing high traffic. The system just can't deliver the data fast enough. When you locate to a new location or hit stop, Nuendo will buffer a bit of the data at the cursor location. You see the delay of Nuendo buffering via the spikes on the disc meter. So it sounds like there is something going on with your system which is causing a bottleneck in how it is accessing the drive.

Let's clarify something. Do you only have 1 drive with 3 partitions, or more than 1 drive? With Audio production you should have Nuendo on your OS drive, and you should have a separate drive for your Nuendo Project and audio files. If you are trying to run Nuendo and store the project from the same drive this could easily be your issue. If you try to run sample libraries also on the same drive you are asking for crashes.

For what it is worth, I run project 24/7 that are around 1Gb of data with 60+ tracks, several plugins, 1 memory hungry VST instrument, with a standard 7500rpm hard drive with no problems. But get better than 2Gb of data with where all the audio is needing to be accessed at the same time and you can start to experience more disk spiking.

Give us a bit more insight into what you have and how you are working with Nuendo.
Single drive or multiple, large or small amounts of data, large track counts, do you need to access 1 stereo file with some overlaps...or 60 tracks or large audio files, is the drive highly fragmented????

Later,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
2.66 gHz Core2 Quad, XP SP-2
RME HDSP-MADI (primary)
SSL Alphalink MADI-SX, Mixpander-5 (backup)

okesta
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by okesta » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:21 am

Hey Brian thanks for your patience(!)

You are accurate with my problem description (delays and system difficulties).

Here we go we some details:
111GB SSD hardrive - windows and audio softwares (nuendo 6 and cubase 7.5) are installed there.

2 TB divided into 3 partitions :audio(for projects and projects files),data (plugins and vst ) and samples(music samples and sfx for post production)

2TB for samples only

So, as i wrote I did use to save project's files and its audio files on the same folder.
I just tried separating them (opening a new project->saving the project file in my documents and the audio files at the audio partition and copy+paste for all the channel/audio files), but unfortunately it didn't help.

This specific project is based on AAF from Media composer 6.
It contains about 15 audio tracks -dialogue and music only.
I'm really at the beginning of the project, so no 'heavy' plugs are open yet- just clearing and playing with the levels of a dialogue.

Thanks again,
Oren.

User avatar
Mattinay
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:49 am
Location: 3rd rock from the sun, turn left, 4 millionth on the right, key is under the mat.
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Mattinay » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:43 am

Hi, as per Brain's comments - this really sounds like disc access issues. That was what my question was getting at as well. Remember that a hard drive has to move the heads really quickly all over the drive to write and read information. Partitioning a drive means that heads have to work even more IF they are trying to access different parts of the hard drive all at the same time (different if one partition holds mp3s and another holds images and you do one thing at a time for example - sheesh that's a poor example but what the heck - you get the idea). I would also ask what is the rpm of your drive? Minimum for me would be 7200, preferred is 10,000 for audio.

steps to resolve, but importantly, steps to ensure longer life for your drives and a more sustainable work environment:
[1] different drives for different purposes. (I have my sound libraries spread across 6 drives). NEVER use your system drive, and never ever ever EVER use a partition on your system drive.
[2] defrag your audio drives (never defrag an SSD though) semi-regularly depending on use. (can take up to 48 hours depending on drive size, frag level, file sizes and available free space)
[3] check your sample drives - if you do lots of adding and deleting libraries and sample sets, you may need to defrag once a year.
[4] you are not always better off with large drives - two 1TB drives might be better than a single 2TB.

TBH - I am nervous about your partitioned 2TB drive. Lots of simultaneous access requirements which stresses the drive and causes slow downs. In the short term, without buying new drives, as Brain said, check your frag levels, defrag, and I would also suggest opening your buffer sizes to get through this project at least. If you have another small drive you can use for the project audio maybe try that (as long as it is a high performance drive of course)
HTH
\m/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snappy quote>
insert snappy quote </end snappy quote>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

okesta
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by okesta » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:24 pm

Hey guys,
Tnx for all the effort.
Problem Solved...
I asked for a new AAF this time with WAV files and not MXF and my system is smiling again.
The good thing is that I learn important things about managing my files/data/projects on my drives.

Cheers!

User avatar
Brain
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Brain » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Okesta,

Good to hear the problem is solved.

FYI, to clarify, We always have every file related to a project all in 1 folder.
Project file, audio files, image files.
We have never had an issue that required is to place the project file and audio files in separate folders or on separate drives. Our projects rarely get bigger than 2Gb, and we rarely have any performance issues.

You can if needed, record to several different drives at the same time, you can tell each individual track what folder on what drive you would like to record. This might speed things up on LARGE projects (where a lot of files are played back at the same time, i.e. 80+ tracks of continuous audio simultaneously.)

I would like to point out that this method can make archiving the project more problematic, so you have to choose which method impacts your life in the best or worst way. Disc access performance now or the possibility of loosing some files during archiving if the archive process is not done correctly.

Have Fun,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
2.66 gHz Core2 Quad, XP SP-2
RME HDSP-MADI (primary)
SSL Alphalink MADI-SX, Mixpander-5 (backup)

User avatar
Mattinay
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:49 am
Location: 3rd rock from the sun, turn left, 4 millionth on the right, key is under the mat.
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Mattinay » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:07 pm

Brain wrote:Okesta,
Good to hear the problem is solved.
Likewise, good to hear. (The bit about MXF makes sense as well - I overlooked that info in your earlier posts).
Brain wrote:FYI, to clarify, We always have every file related to a project all in 1 folder.
Project file, audio files, image files.
We have never had an issue that required is to place the project file and audio files in separate folders or on separate drives. Our projects rarely get bigger than 2Gb, and we rarely have any performance issues.
I second this with the caveat that I use a different drive for video files. A lot of my projects run into the 10 - 40GB range (audio) and I still use a single folder for all the project material (except video) and rarely have any issues. Sample libraries are different - massive amounts of disk activity - they are the ones that get spread across drives. Or at the very least not the same drive as you are using for your audio record/playback. And to repeat myself, avoid using different partitions on the same drive for different purposes within the same project - apart from slowing things down you run the very real risk of shortening the life of your drive (SSDs of course are different). The trick for me to visualise it when I was learning this was to remember that each (physical mechanism) drive has one set of heads regardless of how many partitions. Trying to access video, as well as sample library, as well as record and read audio . . . . . me shudders. :|
Brain wrote:... this method can make archiving the project more problematic ...
Brain, as I am new to Nuendo (trialling the software), is there no "collect all files into a single place" styled process in Nuendo? e.g. Protools "save as" and "copy audio files" all into a single location for backup. So if for some reason you were to round robin your audio files you still collate in a single save operation? I don't have Nuendo in front of me but I remember the Save As and Backup Project dialogue windows did not provide any options, but DID assume that backup at least would collect and collate all files. No?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snappy quote>
insert snappy quote </end snappy quote>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Brain
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Brain » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:40 pm

Mattinay wrote:
Brain wrote:... this method can make archiving the project more problematic ...
Brain, as I am new to Nuendo (trialling the software), is there no "collect all files into a single place" styled process in Nuendo? e.g. Protools "save as" and "copy audio files" all into a single location for backup. So if for some reason you were to round robin your audio files you still collate in a single save operation? I don't have Nuendo in front of me but I remember the Save As and Backup Project dialogue windows did not provide any options, but DID assume that backup at least would collect and collate all files. No?
Yes, and there are several places from which you can access it...

A. from the Media pull down menu, "Prepare archive". This will copy ALL files NOT already in the 'local' project's audio folder into the 'local' projects audio folder. So if you have files on several drives, or imported some files from a network drive (but did not have them create a copy in the local audio folder) it will do so when you use "Prepare archive". (see the manual for "Prepare Archive").

B. You can also use key commands to access "prepare Archive"

C. and you can access "prepare Archive" from the pool.
1. open pool
2. right click (windows) and you will see "prepare Archive".

When I am ready to archive a project, My method of operation (so I don't miss anything, and yet get rid of files I no longer need) is to....
1."prepare archive" (so if there are any loose files it will copy them into my working project)
2. remove unused media (I usually tell it to put them in the trash)
3. "Backup project" This will create a NEW project at the location of your choice.
This will bring up a back up options dialog with the following options ....
a. minimize audio files (if you only used a small portion of a file and will NEVER need the full file)
b. Freeze edits ( this creates a new file in the audio folder, and removes it from the "edits" folder)
c. remove unused files.
d. do not back up video

By using this method, I can create a condensed copy of the project, test it to make sure everything is there and works, then erase the original (bloated) project.

The manual may give better descriptions of each option.

Later,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
2.66 gHz Core2 Quad, XP SP-2
RME HDSP-MADI (primary)
SSL Alphalink MADI-SX, Mixpander-5 (backup)

User avatar
Mattinay
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:49 am
Location: 3rd rock from the sun, turn left, 4 millionth on the right, key is under the mat.
Contact:

Re: Project

Post by Mattinay » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:50 am

Nice.
thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snappy quote>
insert snappy quote </end snappy quote>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post Reply

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest