Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

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Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:49 pm

A question:

On my PC, when Cubase 8 in open, the minimize and maximize buttons I expect to see at the top right of the program are not there. All I see is the "X" that closes the window(s) and shuts down the program.

Is this an inherent aspect of aero I've yet to see anywhere else? Or is this a bug?

Please say it's a bug.

:shock:
Last edited by MickGael on Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by raino » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:16 pm

MickGael wrote: Is this an inherent aspect of aero I've yet to see anywhere else? Or is this a bug?

Please say it's a bug.

:shock:
Since this isn't the behavior of any other program (Chrome, Word, Excel, etc.) that I'm running under Areo it can't be an inherent aspect of Areo. So it has gotta be a bug.
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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Greg Houston » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:22 pm

There are multiple issues with minimizing now. It is all sorts of convoluted and buggy.
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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:41 pm

If they make the aero implementation less flaky, unpredictable and fussy, I'll be pretty happy with this version.

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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Jalcide » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:22 am

Yeah, I haven't found an acceptable way to minimize (and then restore) Cubase Pro 8 on Windows (7).

Clicking on its main icon (collection of windows) in the task bar doesn't work like with single-window applications, where you can easily toggle between showing and hiding the app.

There is no minimize in the title bar.

Right-click minimize puts it into the corner of the screen, but still leaves some VSTs visible (Like SPAN). Then once you give the background focus it does disappear, but then leaves redraw bugs on the screen that won't go away; the playhead line.

Then when you restore by clicking on the icon in the taskbar it comes back not not all of it. :lol: :roll:

Then, it's a game of "find the hidden window" by trying to see which window didn't restore and needs to be clicked on in the taskbar icon preview thing.

If Minimize All is chosen -- yay! all the windows go away and no redraw bugs -- but now all bets are off, there're chores waiting when you return: opening each of your Cubase windows, one by one.

Pretty maddening.
Last edited by Jalcide on Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:23 am

^^ 100 times this.

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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Jalcide » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:36 am

MickGael wrote:^^ 100 times this.
Hehe, thx.

Maybe you should change the title to something like:

"Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?"

(btw, love that reference. lol)

So that it's more descriptive, but also stands out.

It would have some nice alliteration to it. :)
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Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

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Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:39 am

You are right: title edited. :D

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by mikemandt » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:26 am

Having the same issues on my end.




:evil:

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Gadget Fiend » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:52 am

If you had asked me before the release of Cubase 8 if it was possible to make windows management in Cubase on the Windows platform even worse, I would have said that it couldn't be done. Well, I was wrong. Steinberg has managed to make the program even more cumbersome, inconsistent, and counter-intuitive (at least in terms of the UI). Well done, Steinberg.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by suntower » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:10 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:If you had asked me before the release of Cubase 8 if it was possible to make windows management in Cubase on the Windows platform even worse, I would have said that it couldn't be done. Well, I was wrong. Steinberg has managed to make the program even more cumbersome, inconsistent, and counter-intuitive (at least in terms of the UI). Well done, Steinberg.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I got a warning from the board Admin for posting something similar... he objected to my use of the term 'bug'... but what else can you call this?

I HATE being a grouch. I bought the upgrade within an hour of the e-mail. I WANT it to be great. And then the rollout is not clean and it FRIGHTENS me. I figure: if they missed something obvious like -this-.... what -else- is going on? I've got the most plain vanilla machine I can get. I don't OC. I don't even use a video card! CONSERVATIVE. And still the rollouts are almost -always- flaky.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:00 am

I hope to GOD it is a bug. It is erratic, flaky and (based on what I understand Windows behavior to be for the many, many years I have used the OS) broken. If this is the way it intended to work, I just threw away my money. :o

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:07 am

Here are some screen caps. Excuse typo in the image caption. :)
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Last edited by MickGael on Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:08 am

And another typical issue.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Greg Houston » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:15 am

If it were possible to simply dock all those windows together the way you have them laid out then 90% of the problems would be solved and it would look immensely more professional than having a bunch of windows haphazardly arranged together. Still need the minimize button back.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Gadget Fiend » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:11 am

Greg Houston wrote:If it were possible to simply dock all those windows together the way you have them laid out then 90% of the problems would be solved and it would look immensely more professional than having a bunch of windows haphazardly arranged together. Still need the minimize button back.
I know. How could Steinberg not implement a now standard dockable UI when that's what 90% of their users were asking for? This wacky combo title bar/menu thingy is embarrassingly bad design. How it ever got past the company's Head of Product is beyond me.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by mikemandt » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:58 pm

At this point i am more concerned that they (or at least SOMEONE) from steinberg isn't addressing this on the forums yet. there are at least 5 threads of people complaining about this issue.


I emailed support, and the reply i got was some generic cut and paste message from a guy named jeff telling me directions on how to reset cubase to default settings, as if I am the one who messed it up.


This is what we get for paying for your software ?

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by mikemandt » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:02 pm

By the way it took three days to get that reply. I opened it up expecting some actual help or at least a "we will be releasing a fix soon"

i get a copy and pasted message that doesnt even apply to my situation

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by mikemandt » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:11 pm

Opened up a new support ticket and forwarded a lot of this to steinberg including links to threads.

"

Hi guys i have already submitted one support ticket which took three days to get a reply and i got a copy and pasted message telling me to reset the default settings.

This is a serious issue. The new upgrade flat out does not work as advertised and no one seems to be acknowledging the problem. The workspaces are broken, the always on top function is broken, the whole visual interface is malfunctioning. Here are several threads on your own forum with users who have this very same issue. Why is no one responding to this??

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 41#p406741

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 35#p407235

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 22#p406722


^^ thats just the first page.

I am concerned that i spent 100 dollars on this upgrade and would like to know what is being done about this. I'm tired of being told to reset settings or update my PC etc. My PC is working fine and everything else including older versions of cubase run great.


"

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:59 pm

mikemandt wrote:This is a serious issue. The new upgrade flat out does not work as advertised and no one seems to be acknowledging the problem. The workspaces are broken, the always on top function is broken, the whole visual interface is malfunctioning. Here are several threads on your own forum with users who have this very same issue. Why is no one responding to this??

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 41#p406741

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 35#p407235

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 22#p406722"

...My PC is working fine and everything else including older versions of cubase run great.
This is worrisome. Same thing here. No other program on my PC does this. Perhaps we can get Ed Doll or someone from Steinberg to comment on this officially. I know I will try to keep this thread prominent until we hear from someone in this forum.

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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by J-S-Q » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:57 pm

Just to add another perspective... I find the windows handling hugely improved over C7. Just the fact that I can now open the Audio Pool or the Crossfade Edit windows and my project windows remain maximised is a very big improvement for me. I've been waiting for that for a few years!
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by MickGael » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:13 pm

There are many things I like about this version (love the plugin manager!) - which is what makes this so galling.

As was noted above, I think much of the problem would be solved if:

1. It were possible to simply dock all those windows together (even if only as an option).

2. The minimize/restore buttons were restored. This one, especially, is a head scratcher. :?

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Re: Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by raino » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:00 am

Jalcide wrote: If Minimize All is chosen -- yay! all the windows go away and no redraw bugs -- but now all bets are off, there're chores waiting when you return: opening each of your Cubase windows, one by one.

Pretty maddening.
I've found that after using Minimize All when I select another open program as soon as it gets restored the main C8 Tool bar gets restored too, graying out the monitor it is on.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by Gadget Fiend » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:14 am

J-S-Q wrote:Just to add another perspective... I find the windows handling hugely improved over C7. Just the fact that I can now open the Audio Pool or the Crossfade Edit windows and my project windows remain maximised is a very big improvement for me. I've been waiting for that for a few years!
Even though I have made a few admittedly harsh comments in this forum regarding the change in the windowing system in Cubase 8 on the PC, it IS still better than the old MDI model where everything resides within a single "master" workspace (except for "always on top" floating windows). The MDI paradigm is archaic and simply doesn't work when using multiple monitors. Even Microsoft has abandoned MDI in the most recent versions of Office. So it's great that Steinberg has finally moved away from MDI with Cubase 8.

It's just that there was a better and simpler way for Steinberg to make these changes without resorting to an awkward, non-standard menu bar (and all the weird minimize/maximize issues this causes). I'm surprised Steinberg didn't just copy what Presonus has done with Studio One. Although the look and feel of Studio One is an acquired taste, at least the program does window management right.
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Re: Minimize Bug? Or Designed by Mephistopheles?

Post by raino » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:47 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
J-S-Q wrote: It's just that there was a better and simpler way for Steinberg to make these changes without resorting to an awkward, non-standard menu bar (and all the weird minimize/maximize issues this causes). I'm surprised Steinberg didn't just copy what Presonus has done with Studio One. Although the look and feel of Studio One is an acquired taste, at least the program does window management right.
Exactly. All they needed to do was follow Microsoft's implementation recommendations and not go out of their way to do it differently. Standards are created for a reason, and more often than not it pays to follow them.

I also agree it is still an improvement over their previous windows setup.
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