Oh, for crying out loud!.....

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
Post Reply
User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:42 am

Even Tracktion finally gets a Step Sequencer after all this time.....Tracktion!!?? Oh....Cubase?

User avatar
Whirly
Member
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Whirly » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:00 pm

Although it's not the sharpest knife you do have Step Designer in Cubase.
Cubase Pro 10.5
Macbook Pro l OSX 10.14 Mojave l 2.6 GHz i7 l 16 GB
Wavelab 7.2 l HALion 6 l Groove Agent 5 l MR816x l Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Stuff I do: https://vimeo.com/190392395
Stuff I do: https://soundcloud.com/vbre/february-fo ... s-december

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:10 pm

Yeah, seems like it wouldn't take much to improve on that very basic tool. Cubase is such a powerful app and it seems like having a drum sequencer that's as evolved as it's host would be the natural progression.

User avatar
Starsprinkler
Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Starsprinkler » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:23 am

For drums you have Beat Designer (not Step Designer).

User avatar
musicbeat
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:11 am
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by musicbeat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:16 pm

Yeah, it does need an upgrade....more like in Halion, Sonic 2 and Groove Agent! Maybe in v8 the interfaces will crossover?!
i7-6700 3.4 ghz 32 go L2|W10 x64
Cubase Pro 10.5|HALion 6|Cubasis|Spectrasonics Bundle|RME BabyFace|AxiomPro49|Focal Pro-CMS 40's

Centralmusic
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5492
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Centralmusic » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:27 pm

I think in Tracktion it´s not a Step Sequencer or Step Midi thingy...
it´s only an Inplace-Editor, more precisely: Midi in Arrange view. (just a piano roll)
Am I right?
Image

Cubase has this since years...
called "Context Editor":
Image

;-)
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
"Do you already know the manual?"
Kennst du schon das Handbuch?"

oldskoolproductions
New Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by oldskoolproductions » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:00 pm

Beat designer... needs an entire makeover...
I ended up buy the Arturia Spark and using its hardware stepsequencer to to drive Groove agent 4...

ChrisDuncan
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by ChrisDuncan » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:43 pm

I typically use the Drum Editor, although admittedly I don't do anything terribly sophisticated - just basic rock stuff.

That said, it's never felt wanting to me, so I'm wondering what kind of features / functionality I'm missing out on by not using some kind of step sequencer / beat designer / etc.

Can someone touch on the kinds of things that these other tools would do for me?
Control Room: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Edit Station: Cubase 9.5.41 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 22 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH
Keyboard Station: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 10 64 bit | 16 gigs memory | UR 22| CMC TP-AI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

Bantam
Junior Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Bantam » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:34 pm

Buy a cheap Roland DR 55 for step sequencing before they get collectable. It would save having the entire programming team shoehorning one in to the thousands of features that have improved a thousandfold over a simple step sequencer that's probably going to be used once a year by a very few Cubase users.

Do the math.
Dr 55; Ten bucks on ebay. Hardware future proof.
Cubase update just to get a personal step sequencer (if that happens); $50-100 for the upgrade. Probably buggy as the programmers haven't got it as a priority feature item.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:00 am

What used to be the 'Context Editor" is now just the Piano Roll view if you navigate from the track view quick controls or the 'Drum Editor" from the MIDI Menu. Either is incredibly basic in terms of actual musical workflow and editing.

The reason tools become favorites is because they make our lives easier or more creative. The frustrating thing is that the Drum Editor has all the basic tools present to get the job done, they are just in very awkward places with a ridiculous amount of keystrokes to accomplish basic tasks. No ability to create quick beats and loop the idea until you get 'your' original idea then drag that out or copy. These kinds of fast and intuitive tools are essential for original beat creation and songwriting.

The minute you get lost in the dreaded 'tech zone' or 'Loop Hunt' your musical idea has vanished and your back to key combinations and endless grid lines with pages full of colored triangles. Great if your brain is wired like a math major but sucks if your a musician. The biggest advantage of graphical based Drum Sequencer is you can build your idea very quickly and create completely original patterns that compliment 'your' song instead of hundreds of variation of some one else's song.

Then you can save a few different versions ( chorus, intro, breakdown, ect ) and have a completely original drum groove for the entire song in a matter of minutes!

Steinberg PLEASE revamp the aging Drum Editor into something musical!!!
From this...
Image

To something like this...
Image

Bantam
Junior Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Bantam » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:04 pm

Being a musician of the traditional sort I never get bogged down by "loop hunts". I just make my own. I use the software but I don't want it to bog me down to trying to get a machine to do it for me.
I create. It records.
Step recorders and loop libraries just get in the way. Plus they aren't MINE. :)
My advice is to reduce the options of the machine to annoy you. By not relying on it to not slow down creativity. Computer "creation machines" often do, even to me.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

Gambapaketera
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Gambapaketera » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:55 pm

Featherlightstudio wrote: Steinberg PLEASE revamp the aging Drum Editor into something musical!!!
Please don't...i have been using Cubase since the Atari days because of the amazing drum editor, it makes creating realistic drums really easy.
i7 950, 8Gb ddr3, windows 7 64bit, cubase 7.0.6

User avatar
Strophoid
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Strophoid » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:54 pm

Gambapaketera wrote:
Featherlightstudio wrote: Steinberg PLEASE revamp the aging Drum Editor into something musical!!!
Please don't...i have been using Cubase since the Atari days because of the amazing drum editor, it makes creating realistic drums really easy.
This, the drum editor is definitely a useful tool, just not for whipping up a quick drumtrack. I'm all for a good step sequencer though!
Software: Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 64-bit.
Hardware: Intel i5 6600, 16Gb DDR3, Win7 64-bit
Mackie Onyx 1620i - Steinberg Midex 8 - Steinberg CC121.

My humble contributions to what could be considered music.

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:58 am

I totally get that having used a program for so long, you get used to the features and it becomes a familiar habit. We get used to certain tools and they become indispensable.

But sometimes newer versions of tools can add huge workflow advantages to our daily recording lives. Like any other new feature, it may take a minute to acclimate but we did that with each new version of Cubase and welcomed the changes. One example is a good drum sequencer. Playing is great IF you have that option but, not every musician or songwriter does. A dedicated Drum Sequencer is an incredibly fast way of creating totally 'original' beats literally in seconds.

Several other DAWs use Dedicated Drum Sequencers for this purpose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3sKXjBgjoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATkJTwBxZqE

ChrisDuncan
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by ChrisDuncan » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:47 am

Okay, here's the part I don't get. Not trolling - I truly don't understand the difference between a step sequencer and the drum editor.

I watched the opening of the Sonar one, and what went through my mind as he covered the initial bases was this mental comparison to the Cubase drum editor.

List of instruments down the left side: check.
Set to whatever time signature you want: check.
Set the granularity of the notes (1/8th, 16th, etc.): check.
Click on the row of the instrument you want at the beat you want: check.

Honestly, the only conceptual difference I'm seeing is that step sequencers have squares and the drum editor uses diamonds.

What am I missing here?
Control Room: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Edit Station: Cubase 9.5.41 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 22 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH
Keyboard Station: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 10 64 bit | 16 gigs memory | UR 22| CMC TP-AI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

Bantam
Junior Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Bantam » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:42 am

Honestly, the only conceptual difference I'm seeing is that step sequencers have squares and the drum editor uses diamonds.
What am I missing here?
Not a lot.

OI! OP. Use the quantise. You'll be up and running in about ten minutes.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:10 am

Thanks for the replies..

Yes, the Drum Editor is a powerful tool and conceptually, they do the same things. But thats a bit like saying that an Avalon 737 and a ART Voice Channel do the same thing. Yes, there are both capable of Pre-amp, EQ, and Compression but, are they the same, not even close. Its the way they accomplish the job at hand and, as a result, the finished product.

For example, the Drum Editor is capable of swing by a selectable percentage but that feature is buried in the Quantize Panel instead of being an integrated part of the interface like Sonar or logic
The Drum Editor Pattern is 'tied' to the track view in that, you have to select a working area to define the Pattern and soloing the selected track is the only way to get fully independent operation whereas in Fruityloops, Logic and Sonar, the Step Sequencer is it's own separate instrument inside of the DAW and while it's playback can be tied to the DAW, it can also be separate while auditioning ideas and building the pattern. When the Pattern is finished, it is automatically turned into a Groove Clip or loop that can be stretched instantly across as much of the timeline as needed. The Drum Editor requires you to copy and paste the finished product.

My point isn't that the Drum Editor doesn't have the same functions, its that the interface could simply use some updating to compete with some of the more popular tools out there. Consolidating all the powerful features of the Drum Editor into one independent interface would make it a lot easier/creative to use. Workflow enhancements and interface design can make all the difference in the world.

Sometimes change can be a good thing.

Bantam
Junior Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Bantam » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:12 pm

All of Cubase is essentially customisable, including the drum editor. This means that the user, for the large part, is given rein to set up the parts of Cubase he needs to the convenience of his way of working.
I think that once you have spent a short time setting up the drum editor to the way you want, it can then be saved to template or Project for recall.
This way you can set the quantise and grid settings. Look at how you want it to work, get it as close as you can and if you can't (which for most seems to be unlikely) then call for a feature request.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

ChrisDuncan
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by ChrisDuncan » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:29 pm

Featherlightstudio wrote: ...in Fruityloops, Logic and Sonar, the Step Sequencer is it's own separate instrument inside of the DAW ...

...When the Pattern is finished, it is automatically turned into a Groove Clip or loop that can be stretched instantly across as much of the timeline as needed...
Ah, now I see the kinds of differences you're talking about. I did some poking around and Cubase does in fact have a step sequencer. It's called Beat Designer. Looking in the main product manual (Cubase 7 for me) I found references that said to look in the separate document Plug-in_Reference.pdf, which I found in Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 7\Documentation. The Beat Designer is under Midi Effects and in version 7 the description starts on page 126.

One of the things it says there is this:

Normally, you work on a short sequence, adjusting and modifying it while playing it back in a loop. The drum patterns can then either be converted to MIDI parts on a track or triggered using MIDI notes during playback, see “Converting Patterns into MIDI Parts” on page 132 and “Triggering Patterns” on page 132.

I don't use step sequencers so I can't really speak to how it compares to other products, but it does appear to be the droid you're looking for.

Thanks for clarifying the difference between drum editor and step sequencer, that helped. Hope this points you in the direction of what you wanted.
Control Room: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Edit Station: Cubase 9.5.41 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 22 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH
Keyboard Station: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 10 64 bit | 16 gigs memory | UR 22| CMC TP-AI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:35 pm

Yes Cubase is most definitely customizable in just about every way for sure!

It is my favorite DAW to work in and I realize that you cant pick and choose all your favorite features from each DAW to create your own superhero DAW. That being said, we have to work with a lot of different DAW's here at work because we take so many different kinds of projects and its gives us a broad overview of the tools that are out there and many do have a full featured Drum Sequencer/Step Sequencer as part of their arsenal.

You get used to this pretty quickly when your constantly working on a production deadline and it can be very powerful and fast to have all of those features in one dedicated, easy to navigate interface. What takes me 10-20 minutes to create in Drum Editor, I can create in seconds in the Step Sequencer that is inside Sonar for example. This is especially true when your creating Drum Patterns that don't conform to the more common Dance or EDM genera. There are huge libraries for that style of music but surprisingly few when you get into Latin or Salza styles and almost non existent when you start working in the genera of Country or Americana. It gets even more sparse when you start working with time signatures that are not 4/4.

ChrisDuncan,

Thanks for the heads up. The few times iv'e used Beat Designer, I found it to be very basic with a limited set of tools and controls. It seems its more setup to trigger quick or short patterns from their presets. They can be edited but don't have nearly the control that the Drum Editor provides. It IS a lot easier on the eyes however than Drum Editor and looks overall like a more modern GUI.
Image

So between those two ( Drum Editor and Beat Designer ) they have the makings of a powerhouse! If you could combine the in-depth tools of the Drum Editor with the ease of use and more ergonomic graphics of the Beat Designer, you would have the ultimate Beat Creation Tool.

A songwriter, content creator, and Film scores dream machine!
Heres to wishing!!

ChrisDuncan
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by ChrisDuncan » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:17 pm

You probably already know this but I'd looked for some videos and in this one, after covering a lot of obvious stuff, he talks about dragging the clips into loops on a midi track, it's around the 8.00 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjptMllv1g8

I'm guessing it's overall not as powerful as some of the others. That said, I use EZ Drummer and the workflow I generally follow is finding that I'm looking for in their UI (in Beat Designer you'd probably just create your own) and then, rather than use the plugin with all its song arrangement features, I just drag over the midi blocks to a track. While I like having the grooves to start with, I inevitably want to tweak them. So, it's something like EZD or BD to get the groove midi into the tracks, then bring it up in Drum Editor for tweaks and refinements.

Doubt BD will be a total solution for you, but I think for the way you like to work it'll be faster for you to get the majority of it up and running before switching to the Drum Editor.

It's nice when you have all those toys to play with at work, isn't it? :)
Control Room: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Edit Station: Cubase 9.5.41 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 22 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH
Keyboard Station: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 10 64 bit | 16 gigs memory | UR 22| CMC TP-AI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

User avatar
thermionic
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by thermionic » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:38 pm

The drum editor in Cubase is an excellent tool which I've used for many years and I don't want to see it changed. It's powerful and intuitive, I can edit in nuance like no other editor I've tried, I don't see how it could be improved. I certainly wouldn't want to be working with Fisher Price graphics.

If it ain't broke, PLEASE Steinberg - don't fix it.

User avatar
Featherlightstudio
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by Featherlightstudio » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:00 am

I agree the Drum Editor has excellent tools but to NEVER change or update it?!
How do you feel a bout Windows XP or Leopard or Cubase 4 or the many other really good tools that eventually got updated because incremental improvements and workflow enhancements turned out to be a good thing?

User avatar
thermionic
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by thermionic » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:27 am

When change itself can give no more - 'tis easy to be true (Sir Charles Sedley) 8-)

ChrisDuncan
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Oh, for crying out loud!.....

Post by ChrisDuncan » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:37 am

Featherlightstudio wrote:I agree the Drum Editor has excellent tools but to NEVER change or update it?!
The drum editor is a different tool than the beat designer. While enhancements within the context of what it is will always be welcome, what I'm hearing from everyone is, "don't try to turn drum editor into beat designer."

Seems to me that for the things you'd like to see, it's beat designer that could use the updates rather than drum editor.
Control Room: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Edit Station: Cubase 9.5.41 | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 22 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH
Keyboard Station: Cubase 10.0.30 | Windows 10 64 bit | 16 gigs memory | UR 22| CMC TP-AI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

Post Reply

Return to “Older Cubase versions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests