SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

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mojord
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SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by mojord »

Can someone help me out with this?
Why when I solo a track do I hear other tracks that automation is turning on?
Shouldn't it "not matter" what else is happening (ie: Mutes) when "I'm in solo"?
btw: Had the same problem in C5 ... not in C4
Thanks
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by TwinOak »

If you've automated a mute on one track and solo another then yes, it should behave like this. Just like when you solo one track and press mute on another the second track will become soloed too.

/A
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by mojord »

TwinOak wrote:If you've automated a mute on one track and solo another then yes, it should behave like this. Just like when you solo one track and press mute on another the second track will become soloed too.

/A

??? .. Working on a console and I solo a track, I don't hear opening of mutes ...
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Strophoid
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Strophoid »

The mute and solo in cubase behave differently than on a hardware mixer, because on a hardware mixer using solo it sends the signal to another output (headphones usually). Now unless you have a more complex setup in Cubase with multiple outputs, the solo button will route the signal to the same output as an 'unmuted' track.
With just 1 output there is no difference between a track being unmuted or solo.

I feel your pain though, it does my head in at times because it isn't exactly intuitive.
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Split
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Split »

Probably because solo is just mute all other unrelated tracks thus an unmute becomes a solo!!!

Another good use for the Control Room Listen Buss.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Strophoid »

Split, thank you, that's exactly what I was trying to say but somehow yours looks clearer :P
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by alexis »

Split wrote:Probably because solo is just mute all other unrelated tracks thus an unmute becomes a solo!!!

Another good use for the Control Room Listen Buss.
Thanks for that, Split! I've been avoiding learning about Control Room because I'm a "solo" bedroom studio recorder (though not an "unmuted" one :D ), but I will look into it if it helps the solo/mute buttons behave more like on a mixing desk.

Once in "Control Room", is it pretty intuitive how to set it up so the M/S function behaves like that?
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Split
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Split »

alexis wrote:
Once in "Control Room", is it pretty intuitive how to set it up so the M/S function behaves like that?
I wouldn't call it "intuitive" but once you get your head round it, it's relatively straight forward.

Once in there you can set the amount of "Dim" the listen button causes so if set to infinite it acts pretty much like a solo.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by alexis »

Split wrote:
alexis wrote:
Once in "Control Room", is it pretty intuitive how to set it up so the M/S function behaves like that?
I wouldn't call it "intuitive" but once you get your head round it, it's relatively straight forward.

Once in there you can set the amount of "Dim" the listen button causes so if set to infinite it acts pretty much like a solo.
Thanks again for the hint, Split!
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by mojord »

alexis wrote:
Split wrote: Another good use for the Control Room Listen Buss.?
Thanks guys. SO to be clear...
If I start using the control room then the SOLO BUTTON WILL ACT LIKE A CONSOLE SOLO BUTTON?
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by TwinOak »

Nope, the "Listen button" (the button with an L on it) will behave like a solo button if you set listen dim to -inf in the control room.

/A
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by VariMu »

TwinOak wrote:Nope, the "Listen button" (the button with an L on it) will behave like a solo button if you set listen dim to -inf in the control room.
An added benefit of the Listen buss at -inf. is the ability to do a true solo of a reverb channel, which is VERY handy.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Weasel »

The way I see it is like this: at the top of the Track list there are four "master" function buttons. Mute, Solo, Read and Write.

I think Steinberg should add a fifth button similar to the Deactive Read button in the Automation Panel....but one whose function would be to suspend the solo'd track's automation.

The main difference between this button and the one in the Automation Panel is that it restores individual Track Read status after it's disengaged (unlike the Automation panel, which globally engages all Read buttons to get out of Read Deactive mode). They could go even farther and permit a Right/Click contextual menu for the button, choosing what function(s) get temporarily suspended....like fader, pan, mute....etc.

That'd be handy.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by BaloErets »

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the automation panel have the ability to suspend all mutes/solo? I'm pretty sure this is the exact reason these options are there. I realize that it's a workaround, but a working workaround nevertheless ;)

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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Weasel »

but doesn't the automation panel have the ability to suspend all mutes/solo?
Yes it does, but it still has "unexpected" behavior where soloing is concerned. Go automate a bunch of mutes on a few tracks and suspend mutes from the Automation panel and see what happens.

The idea is when you solo something...that's supposed to be the only track (or tracks if more than one solo is invoked) unmuted and playing: the one you solo. That's what solo means. Steinberg needs to find a way to get soloing to behave like people expect it should work.
Solo doesn't mean solo this track and oh, by the way, here are a few others need to hear that you weren't expecting.

It needs an independent suspend automation switch that makes solo work so you only hear what you choose and ignores any mute status being forced by the automation.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by mojord »

Weasel wrote:
but doesn't the automation panel have the ability to suspend all mutes/solo?
The idea is when you solo something...that's supposed to be the only track (or tracks if more than one solo is invoked) unmuted and playing: the one you solo. That's what solo means. Steinberg needs to find a way to get soloing to behave like people expect it should work.
Solo doesn't mean solo this track and oh, by the way, here are a few others need to hear that you weren't expecting.

It needs an independent suspend automation switch that makes solo work so you only hear what you choose and ignores any mute status being forced by the automation.
I really don't want to "suspend" anything when I solo a track. I want to listen to he track in solo with "all of it's automation" and glory. Sometimes I'm looking to find a click (possibly caused by automation of a plugin) and I need everything going. It "seems like" such an easy thing to do in software...
Really hope they can get this together.. it REALLY is a work stopper.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Weasel »

I really don't want to "suspend" anything when I solo a track. I want to listen to he track in solo with "all of it's automation" and glory.
That's a reasonable variant. Could be a pref: Suspend All or Suspend All Except Soloed.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Keith99 »

VariMu wrote:
TwinOak wrote:Nope, the "Listen button" (the button with an L on it) will behave like a solo button if you set listen dim to -inf in the control room.
An added benefit of the Listen buss at -inf. is the ability to do a true solo of a reverb channel, which is VERY handy.
I always wondered how to do that, another thing that is so easy on a physical desk

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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by mojord »

Lastly... This never used to be a problem. I'm fairly certain that the C4 solo button worked just like a console solo button. I mean after all they are showing us fader channels on a mixer, right?
I think it all "went south" with the entrance of "THE CONTROL ROOM".
Please let us have our solo button back ...right there on the channel where it needs to be.
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by thinkingcap »

Keith99 wrote:
VariMu wrote:
TwinOak wrote:Nope, the "Listen button" (the button with an L on it) will behave like a solo button if you set listen dim to -inf in the control room.
An added benefit of the Listen buss at -inf. is the ability to do a true solo of a reverb channel, which is VERY handy.
I always wondered how to do that, another thing that is so easy on a physical desk
Well, I don´t know, which desks you are talking about, but most desks usually have PFL´s, which is usually something different than solo (depending on the implemented Solo mode of course).
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by thinkingcap »

mojord wrote:Lastly... This never used to be a problem. I'm fairly certain that the C4 solo button worked just like a console solo button. I mean after all they are showing us fader channels on a mixer, right?
I think it all "went south" with the entrance of "THE CONTROL ROOM".
Control room was introduced in C4...
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Keith99 »

thinkingcap wrote: Well, I don´t know, which desks you are talking about, but most desks usually have PFL´s, which is usually something different than solo (depending on the implemented Solo mode of course).
Gosh well it is a while since I actually touched a physical desk but I remember it being an easy task to hear reverb only

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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by thinkingcap »

Keith99 wrote:
thinkingcap wrote: Well, I don´t know, which desks you are talking about, but most desks usually have PFL´s, which is usually something different than solo (depending on the implemented Solo mode of course).
Gosh well it is a while since I actually touched a physical desk but I remember it being an easy task to hear reverb only
Yeah, surely, because it´s usually PFLs, not Solos especially on live desks. A PFL doesn´t mute the other tracks, while a "Solo" mostly does, because they use different monitoring busses (PFL usually the phones, Solo usually the main mix bus) That´s why it´s usually a bad idea to use a "real" Solo on a live desk..
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by Crotchety »

This counter-intuitive behaviour has been bugging me for ages. I'm glad to hear the explanation and it now makes sense at least but I'm with those who would like to see Solo behave as you would expect.

How about if clicking Solo automatically suspends automation on all other tracks before the Solo engages? That way, you'd still get to hear the automation on the track you're listening to. There is already a bypass automation function so perhaps this might not be too difficult to implement.

Just a suggestion, probably unworkable but just in case in can be improved on...
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Re: SOLO'n a track hears other tracks

Post by thinkingcap »

Crotchety wrote:I'm with those who would like to see Solo behave as you would expect.
Well, though I understand what you want to say, it depends on who has the "correct" expectations. I personally do expect a "Solo" to behave at least similar as the Cubase Solo does (depending on the desk and manufacturer, there are even different Solo modes available). Therefore the first thing when I get to a live console with "solos" on it, is to make sure, it´s not in "solo" mode, but PFL, because of the above mentioned reasons.
Crotchety wrote:How about if clicking Solo automatically suspends automation on all other tracks before the Solo engages? That way, you'd still get to hear the automation on the track you're listening to. There is already a bypass automation function so perhaps this might not be too difficult to implement.
Well, it is already implemented to work, by using the control room and listen function. (For full Cubase users though, that´s true). The thing is just if someone is willing to use it, or refuses to use it, because it is not the (in his opinion "correct") way.
Just my 2 cents though...
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