Groove Agent has lost it's way

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Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by pkmusic » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:09 am

Groove Agent 2 & 3 were so good. I could start a song and have a decent drum and percussion vibe happening in minutes. GA3 did become a bit odd in it's later period, but still worked. I looked forward to GA4. So I was very quick to throw down $100 for the upgrade. I have had to resort to Youtube to even begin to work out what is going on. And those tutorials are crap. They are mostly advertisements, followed by erratic jumping around to features without explaining what is happening. It's a confusing interface. Imagine for a minute that your new drummer was GA3. "Give me a groove at 102 - sort of funky, straight ahead." "Add some congas and shaker" Done. Now move to GA4. "Sorry - I need to load my Beat Agent and then a pattern and then edit the pattern then press play then" - forget it. Steinberg is now like the Hall Of Confusion" with this stuff. Hello? Any actual musicians in there guys? Played a gig? For money?
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by henkx » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:36 pm

Same to me.

The concept, loved by so many users, is lost. The manual is the worst I ever read.

Maybe there are much more possibilities now, but I don't need them for a quick layout.

For really good sounding drums I used and will use other software

best regards

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:21 am

+10.000

Totally agreed! GA4 is the worst music software I have come across in 10 years. It does not sound particularly good, the GUI is far from intuitive, the presets does not have names that are usable, the manual is not worth even opening. I seldom have to write a manual myself to use a program, but GA4 made me do it (available through Groove Monkee). But since you already own it and to get most out of it, spend and extra 20 and buy the tutorial from Groove3 (not the same company as Groove Monkee despite similarity in the name).
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by hotchickenbone » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:19 pm

Agreed. So disappointing. I've posted several times looking for that midi out option, have yet to hear progress. Instead they release Cubase 8 that has Groove Agent 4 Se that is strangely similar to GA 4 ! I give up. Unless they fix this, I am ready to move on. No more money to Steinberg. I stop at Cubase 7.5.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:59 pm

hotchickenbone wrote:No more money to Steinberg. I stop at Cubase 7.5.
Got to tell you that CB8 works very well here and is worth the money +. But I will never buy another Steinberg plugin. NEVER!
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by scojo » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:23 am

I hate GA4. I asked for my money back and was denied. Mathew and the product architects should be fired. They don't even respond to these issues with meaningful solutions. They don't give a *flower*. I liked GA3 for Jazz and blues, I just wanted better samples and better integration with Cubase. They completely abandoned the jazz/blues customers.
Steinberg seems hung up on this shitty HipHop /House/ Euro disco sound in almost everything they do. None of the presets in any of their products cater to quality acoustic basses, jazz brushes, or acoustic related instruments. On top of all this they are discontinuing support for GA3. Cubase still does a good job, but I've invested more than a few thousand dollars in their various upgrades and add-on products. Halion 5, Halion Se, Halion Se2, GA4, GA4se. What a bunch of confusing *flower*. I would like to abandon the platform, but at this point don't want to get started with something new and loose my investment. They're a disappointing company in many ways. If you are looking to make an investment I would seriously consider another platform if your a musician who wants to record jazz style music. This platform seems to moving more toward a recording engineers needs.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:25 pm

scojo wrote:I hate GA4. I asked for my money back and was denied. Mathew and the product architects should be fired. They don't even respond to these issues with meaningful solutions. They don't give a *flower*. I liked GA3 for Jazz and blues, I just wanted better samples and better integration with Cubase. They completely abandoned the jazz/blues customers.
Steinberg seems hung up on this *flower* HipHop /House/ Euro disco sound in almost everything they do. None of the presets in any of their products cater to quality acoustic basses, jazz brushes, or acoustic related instruments. On top of all this they are discontinuing support for GA3. Cubase still does a good job, but I've invested more than a few thousand dollars in their various upgrades and add-on products. Halion 5, Halion Se, Halion Se2, GA4, GA4se. What a bunch of confusing *flower*. I would like to abandon the platform, but at this point don't want to get started with something new and loose my investment. They're a disappointing company in many ways. If you are looking to make an investment I would seriously consider another platform if your a musician who wants to record jazz style music. This platform seems to moving more toward a recording engineers needs.
I agree 100% in what you write here, except for I still think Cubase is the best platform. I have 4 other DAWs (Logic one of them) and I do not think they come close to Cubase. I have also worked on ProTools and have had more problems there than with Cubase.

Cubase has the VST standard that not all DAWs have, you would however keep most of your investment if you switch to another VST supporting DAW. I am now looking into Bitwig and so far it looks promising. The VST standard is what opens up for most 3. party pluggs.

When it comes to the Steinberg plugins I find them all inferior to 3. party pluggs. I can not understand why people buy Steinberg pluggs when the market i flowing with alternatives that excells in almost every way. But I was fooled too. Bought GA4. Though it was a 64 bit enhancement of GA3. GA3 was not great at all but had its place in Jazz and some ballads. What a dissapointment GA4 was. Nothing, NOTHING of the things that defended GA3s (or even GA2s) place in my plugg set up were there. Those "attributes" present in GA 4 looses to Addictive drums, Slate and Toontrack. I still use GA2/GA3 through VST link on an old computer. GA2 is 10(?) years old and still better than GA4. As previouly stated: I will not get fooled agian.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:18 am

Hi,

I have been torn between GA4 and EZ2 Drummer. I watched many You Tube videos on the Latter and it really does look excellent. But watching GA4 videos, it seems very confusing indeed (eg) :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tWHi1QnHxY

...and I also did not get along very well with the GA4 TRIAL period.

Ta,

Paul
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by scojo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:30 am

What I liked best about GA3 was the semi "artificial intelligence." You could pick a style easily, complexity, put fills that varied every 8 bars, hit play and either record or jam with the drummer. It was just a little cumbersome when it came to setting up intro's and outros when it was time to lay down a track. Not impossible but I was hoping GA4 would continue that "ease of use" approach, yet be able to drag intros and outros easily and convert the midi track to audio. Cubase 8 provides the rendering now but I don't see how GA4 can achieve the ease of use with the "drum machine" style interface. Very Klunky. Personally I have no real need for 4 agents simultaneously. Bringing up one agent chokes my system. Oh, I forgot, its also not very efficient and eats memory and CPU. Has crashed Cubase many times. My PC is older but meets the minimum documented requirements. I'm going to shut up about GA4 and just use GA3, EZ drummer, and loops, like I did before.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:19 am

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi,

I have been torn between GA4 and EZ2 Drummer. I watched many You Tube videos on the Latter and it really does look excellent. But watching GA4 videos, it seems very confusing indeed (eg) :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tWHi1QnHxY

...and I also did not get along very well with the GA4 TRIAL period.

Ta,

Paul
If you have not bought either I would strongly suggest EZDrummer. It is by far the better of the two. I have been using both a long time now. Well, "using" GA4 is perhaps not the right term. "Tried to use and given up" is the right term. Entering the Toontrack world of EZDrummer is like playing in premier league compared to some obscure club just founded by fat 40 year olds trying to play football.

I think GA4 is such a bad product that the best advice to Steinberg is to pull it from the market and come back next year with something new (in the direction of GA2/3).
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:44 pm

Thank you Red Rum,
Rumdrum wrote:If you have not bought either I would strongly suggest EZDrummer. It is by far the better of the two.

I think GA4 is such a bad product that the best advice to Steinberg is to pull it from the market and come back next year with something new (in the direction of GA2/3).
I appreciate that. I have pretty much blown out GA4 I guess. Which is a real shame because I like trying to stay loyal to a company and to keep everything under the same umbrella. I am very disappointed with what I have seen of GA4 so far and I would have given anything for them to have based the GUI etc on GA2/2. They have just taken off in a meaningless and complex direction for some bizarre reason!?

Yes, EZ2 does look the real deal and member LBro has also given me personal assurance on this. The only other VST which keeps popping up is JAMSTIX (RE : ShadowFax [who again has been great here]) and so I am going to spend a couple of days checking that one out before making a FINAL decision after Xmas.

Getting a bloody £100 SPEEDING TICKET last week did not help much with the matter! :evil: lol

Best,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by wodehouse » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:48 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:
Getting a bloody £100 SPEEDING TICKET last week did not help much with the matter! :evil: lol
OT: If you opt for the Speed Awareness Course instead of points, try not to refer to it as the 'Speed Camera Awareness Course'. They don't like it! ;)

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:16 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Thank you Red Rum,
Rumdrum wrote:If you have not bought either I would strongly suggest EZDrummer. It is by far the better of the two.

I think GA4 is such a bad product that the best advice to Steinberg is to pull it from the market and come back next year with something new (in the direction of GA2/3).
I appreciate that. I have pretty much blown out GA4 I guess. Which is a real shame because I like trying to stay loyal to a company and to keep everything under the same umbrella. I am very disappointed with what I have seen of GA4 so far and I would have given anything for them to have based the GUI etc on GA2/2. They have just taken off in a meaningless and complex direction for some bizarre reason!?

Yes, EZ2 does look the real deal and member LBro has also given me personal assurance on this. The only other VST which keeps popping up is JAMSTIX (RE : ShadowFax [who again has been great here]) and so I am going to spend a couple of days checking that one out before making a FINAL decision after Xmas.

Getting a bloody £100 SPEEDING TICKET last week did not help much with the matter! :evil: lol

Best,

Paul
Jamstix is a toy for kids compared to EzDrummer. However I would like to mention that if you lay down your own beats/grooves and don't use premade grooves at all, you should have a look at Ministry of Rock. It is expencive (also contains guitars and basses), CPU heavy and does not contain a MIDI player for premade grooves, but it is by far the best sounding soft drum around.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:28 pm

Hi WH,
wodehouse wrote:OT: If you opt for the Speed Awareness Course instead of points, try not to refer to it as the 'Speed Camera Awareness Course'. They don't like it!
I paid the fine and my sister copped for the 3 x points.

But what I did do, is you can request a copy of the UNMANNED CAMERA PHOTOGRAPH. Also, you can ask for a copy of the certificate of when the camera was last CALIBRATED (which not a lot of people know about)! If it was not calibrated within the last 12 x months, then the fine is void! But, both of my attempts here did not result in my favor.

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by wodehouse » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:48 pm

Hi Paul,

You might want to remove your last comment. Remember, an MP went to jail last year for doing that! ;)

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:54 pm

Hiya RR,
Rumdrum wrote:Jamstix is a toy for kids compared to EzDrummer. However I would like to mention that if you lay down your own beats/grooves and don't use premade grooves at all, you should have a look at Ministry of Rock. It is expencive (also contains guitars and basses), CPU heavy and does not contain a MIDI player for premade grooves, but it is by far the best sounding soft drum around.
Not heard of 'Ministry Of Rock' ever thanks (though please note my preferred genres as below).

Well, I would be looking to put grooves/compositions/arrangements together in the way that I had hoped GA4 would have favored. So having the same kind or regular GUI, but with a Drag&Drop (and song-form creator) facility like EZ2 has.

I mostly like Jazz/Latin/Funk/Pop and all that... Here are a couple of snippets if you are interested and if it helps to clarify (I am still very much a novice with Cubase, so please forgive any audio glitches etc!). I would most probably be happy with the Preset Intro/AABA/Outro inclusions of the software :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwfZ_zCc ... -dJcrbkqtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyiUEv4V ... -dJcrbkqtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLxa6Qw ... -dJcrbkqtg

Best,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:56 pm

WW,
wodehouse wrote:You might want to remove your last comment. Remember, an MP went to jail last year for doing that!
Ha ha, a bloody COPPER on the Steiny forum! pmsl :D

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by wodehouse » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:04 pm

No - not a copper. Just making sure any that are don't see it.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by _MusicMan_ » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:17 pm

I've never used Groove Agent before, but I bought GA4 recently and really like it.
I don't see any reasons for not being able to load any samples into it that one wishes.
I use GA4 sometimes, then different samples from NI Maschine...whatever I fancy at the moment and for different flavours.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:19 pm

WH,
wodehouse wrote:No - not a copper. Just making sure any that are don't see it.
Groove Agent = Secret Agent = Copper ! lmaf :lol:

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:09 pm


I was quite impressed by this. There are still some potential when it comes to mixing and mastering but overall a very good job :-)

I do not think that MOR is for you after having heard your genre. Have you got Kontakt or Komplete? Might be that Native Insturments drumsets for Kontakt is more up you alley. Or perhaps also JazzDrums and Mallets. For Kontakt that also. I think they will work with the free Kontakt Player if you do not have the full Kontakt. I would also strongly suggest a very good compressor for the drums, no matter which set you go for. The Soft Tube CL1B (expencive) and the ones from Slate Digital (VBC) (now on offer) are recommended. (CL 1B is the best I have come accross. Softtube have sale from time to time with up to 50% discount). The compressors in Cubase are no good. Also, if you do not do that already; one drum per track. In that way you can compress, eq and reverb each drum separately. Also recommend a slight distortion/saturation on the snare. Here Cubase quadrafuzz is great. (Finally a good plugg from Steinberg).
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:23 pm

Thanks RedRum,

I appreciate your kind advice and time here.

I am much more of a player than I am Cubaser, but I am learning little new things all the time as I go along. I would really like some tuition face2face or in a college but it has never worked out for many reasons. Plus the last 9 x months have been spent intensely studying FM Synthesis and the directly related DX7 Yamaha synth.

I had a look a MoR again this morning and yes you are correct. I can imagine this package being EXCELLENT for certain musicians as it looks very powerful indeed, but at all for Jazz/Blues etc.

JamStix did really sound AMAZING (esp. the JAZZ feel was out of this world!), but I think I am hooked on the drummer's chair perspective as opposed to plan view, or otherwise.

FX-wise, I do have a modest handful of WAVES and I think there is a Compressor in there somewhere. I am not expert enough to pass judgment on which brand is superior in this field, though I can say I found the Steinberg FX easy to operate manually in terms of their displays and button/slider sizes etc. The WAVES FX seemed very small and fiddily. But thats just my NOVICE opinion!


It says that they have a SALE on their style-packs (69e to 41e [or something like that]). But does anyone know how long this sale lasts for please? :-

http://www.toontrack.com/ezdrummer-line/


And is this where you make the purchase buy adding to cart (I am not sure if you have to join/subscribe first because it says 'Log In'). I assume everything is only available as a download directly from the ToonTracks site? :-

http://www.toontrack.com/product/ezdrummer-2/


Though I have found it on eBay UK (free poststage / click&collect) for a boxed version (better to own a hard copy version would you not agree?) :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toontrack-EZ- ... 43d13e3489


Best,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:48 am

Hi MM,
_MusicMan_ wrote:I've never used Groove Agent before, but I bought GA4 recently and really like it.
I think GA4 is more of an issue for members (who like myself) are migrating from GA2/GA3. There seems to be a general consensus of expectations as to what current owners had hoped the new version would be like.

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:20 pm

Hi,

Anyone able to help here please guys? :)

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:36 pm

If you have not bought anything from Toontrack yet, you will register when you buy. You determine the product first and during check out you will be prompted to fill in the information.

Previously there was only one option and that was CD in a box. Nowadays it is more and more downloads. Yes it is better to have a "hard copy" if the world should collaps, but I have done that "safety routine" by a double back up. No need for CDs and boxes to fill up the shelf. CDs rarely contain the latest version so you need to download updates anyway.

Compare the prices between the Toontrack site and the Time & Space retailer. For me (in Norway) the prices of T&S are better for some reason.
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