ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

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ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by arve.furset » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:07 pm

How can I do that to follow the EBU standard outlined here:
https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3352.pdf

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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:10 pm

See this:
2014-06-25_19-08-53.png
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by arve.furset » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:23 pm

Great! Thanks for the quick answer...and for Watch Folders...pure genius.

Will the ISRCs follow if I later convert to mp3 from the 24bit master, or do I have to embed this to every conversion?

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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:28 pm

BWF is only for WAVs, this won't follow inside mp3.
However, the supplied preset also store the ISRC in the ID3v2 meta-data, and this will be found in mp3 too.
Verify at the end that you made everything correctly.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by arve.furset » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:35 pm

I see. Thanks again.
BTW..is there a way to do timeline automation on a plugin in Wavelab like in Cubase/Nuendo?

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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:42 pm

Not yet.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:50 pm

Does the AXML + ID3v2 comply with this new attempt at a standard?:

http://www.mpg.org.uk/isrc-bwav-press/

I rendered some 16-bit WAV files with the AXML + ID3v2 preset, and checked the WAVs with the new Sonoris ISRC Editor software: http://www.sonorissoftware.com/catalog/ ... a2d43a4b12

This Sonoris software is not showing that ISRC codes are embedded. I understand that Wavelab is embedding the code somewhere but if possible I would like to be able to embed the codes into a place that is becoming standard.

Or maybe it's because this new standard is for BWAV and not standard WAV. I admit that I'm not very familiar with the difference between the two.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:00 pm

Does the AXML + ID3v2 comply with this new attempt at a standard?:

http://www.mpg.org.uk/isrc-bwav-press/
Yes
This Sonoris software is not showing that ISRC codes are embedded.
But if you open the file in WaveLab, do you see the ISRC?
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:52 pm

PG wrote: But if you open the file in WaveLab, do you see the ISRC?
This is what I see when I open the rendered WAV in Wavelab editor:
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:54 pm

And this is what I see after I enter the ISRC code to the same WAV via the Sonoris ISRC Editor:
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Sonoris ISRC.png
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:59 pm

I want to be sure that moving forward, any ISRC codes of rendered WAVs are embedded correctly and I assume that the Sonoris ISRC editor is up to date with the latest standard.

I can only get an ISRC code to appear in the Sonoris ISRC Editor if I enter the code using Sonoris ISRC Editor.

Maybe I put too much trust into the Sonoris or maybe the Sonoris is only for Broadcast WAV files and not standard WAV.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:05 pm

After verification, I see that WaveLab stores the data with the "aXML" signature, rather than the "axml" signature.
Some programs read both signatures, but the official signature is "axml" and WaveLab should be updated to comply to this.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:19 pm

PG wrote:After verification, I see that WaveLab stores the data with the "aXML" signature, rather than the "axml" signature.
Some programs read both signatures, but the official signature is "axml" and WaveLab should be updated to comply to this.
This is good to know, thanks.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:28 am

PG wrote:After verification, I see that WaveLab stores the data with the "aXML" signature, rather than the "axml" signature.
Some programs read both signatures, but the official signature is "axml" and WaveLab should be updated to comply to this.
PG, I've just found that Wavelab encoded files can be easily "fixed" for Sonoris with BWF MetaEdit by using the green aXML buttons, but I wondered if you know of any other non-DAW programs that read the aXML chunk. Also in 8.03, I don't see the aXML listed in the metadata properties if I open a file that's been encoded (in Wavelab or Sonoris). Only see the id3 ISRC of the Wavelab file. Will that readback capability be added?
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:17 am

If a file has been encoded by WaveLab, you can see the aXML meta-data again.

There is a hack to solve the problem rather easily (for some). Open the wav file in a binary editor, find and replace aXML for axml.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:41 am

PG wrote:If a file has been encoded by WaveLab, you can see the aXML meta-data again.

There is a hack to solve the problem rather easily (for some). Open the wav file in a binary editor, find and replace aXML for axml.
Thanks PG. The BWFMetaEdit method is to open an album worth of encoded files and click the aXML column entries where they say Yes. That will open the code window, and when you close the window the Yes will turn green. Do that for all the files and then click Save on the left. Trace will show what was changed:

before:
00000000 024E0ED2 WAVE
0000000C 0000001C JUNK
00000030 00000010 fmt
00000048 00000022 id3
00000072 024E0C54 data
024E0CCE 00000204 axml

after:
00000000 024E0EDC WAVE
0000000C 00000010 fmt
00000024 00000022 id3
0000004E 0000001C FLLR
00000072 024E0C54 data
024E0CCE 0000020D axml

Does that look ok to you? I verified nothing else about the files was changed.

Sonoris files also have the JUNK, but it's not changed, as the column entries don't turn green, which enables the Save.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:08 am

This looks ok. The Junk is for RF64 support, but it not needed when the file is finished.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:28 pm

PG wrote:If a file has been encoded by WaveLab, you can see the aXML meta-data again.
.
PG, I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I can't get any aXML encoded ISRC wav file to read back the aXML in Wavelab 8.03 at all, whether encoded in Sonoris or Wavelab. The aXML chunk doesn't list at all in the wav file metadata properties readback like it does in BWF Metaedit or Sonoris. Am I missing something, or can that capability be added?
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:14 pm

When I open a wav file in WaveLab 8.0.3, set something in the aXML box, save the file, close the file, reopen the file, then I can see the aXML data again.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:52 am

PG wrote:When I open a wav file in WaveLab 8.0.3, set something in the aXML box, save the file, close the file, reopen the file, then I can see the aXML data again.
You're right PG. My mistake. It just doesn't read back the aXML "corrected" by BWFMetaEdit at all (no aXML in properties, and empty aXML in the tab editor). But I guess that makes sense, and will wait for your corrected version.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:32 pm

So here is a new question:

I have a WAV file that was generated by HOFA DDP Player which now embeds ISRC codes directly into the WAV files when you export WAVs from the Player (assuming the DDP has ISRC codes). The ISRC codes show up in the new Sonoris ISRC Editor with no problems.

However, when I load the WAV into Wavelab, I see ZERO WAV metadata, not even the ISRC code that Sonoris ISRC Editor can see.

Will this also be fixed in the next patch along when the proper amxl field?
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:42 am

Jperkinski wrote:So here is a new question:

I have a WAV file that was generated by HOFA DDP Player which now embeds ISRC codes directly into the WAV files when you export WAVs from the Player (assuming the DDP has ISRC codes). The ISRC codes show up in the new Sonoris ISRC Editor with no problems.

However, when I load the WAV into Wavelab, I see ZERO WAV metadata, not even the ISRC code that Sonoris ISRC Editor can see.

Will this also be fixed in the next patch along when the proper amxl field?
PG, the Hofa, Sonoris, and BWFMetaEdit files are all ISRC unreadable if you open them in Wavelab. Apparently because they're all using "axml".

The easiest way to test this is with the Sonoris:
http://www.sonorissoftware.com/catalog/ ... -p-59.html
Or I could send you test files of all of them.

I'd also like to ask if it would be possible to decode the xml that's displayed when you open a wav file and look at the metadata properties. The axml and ixml would be much easier to read if the xml was decoded to just display the relevant metadata, rather than having to look through a paragraph of xml code for the metadata inside.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by PG » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:18 pm

I'd also like to ask if it would be possible to decode the xml that's displayed when you open a wav file and look at the metadata properties. The axml and ixml would be much easier to read if the xml was decoded to just display the relevant metadata, rather than having to look through a paragraph of xml code for the metadata inside.
Where would you like to see it displayed?
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by Justin P » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:45 pm

PG wrote:
I'd also like to ask if it would be possible to decode the xml that's displayed when you open a wav file and look at the metadata properties. The axml and ixml would be much easier to read if the xml was decoded to just display the relevant metadata, rather than having to look through a paragraph of xml code for the metadata inside.
Where would you like to see it displayed?
I agree that the meta-data box for single files in the editor could be cleaned up a bit. I agree that I don't need to see all the behind the scenes code, I would just like to see the relevant titles for artist, song, album, ISRC etc.

I imagine it looking something like how the CD-Text box looks in the montage. It's nice and clean. The meta-data boxes (both in the montage and edit mode) get a little too detailed with coding in my opinion.
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Re: ISRC embedded in 24bit Wav PCM masters

Post by bob99 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:15 pm

PG wrote:
I'd also like to ask if it would be possible to decode the xml that's displayed when you open a wav file and look at the metadata properties. The axml and ixml would be much easier to read if the xml was decoded to just display the relevant metadata, rather than having to look through a paragraph of xml code for the metadata inside.
Where would you like to see it displayed?
I think the XML should be decoded in this view pictured by jperkinski:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/downloa ... hp?id=8512
Metadata display of an audio file open in the audio file or montage workspace.

I don't think it should necessarily be decoded in the main metadata tab editor, because a user might need to add more AXML or IXML user code. Unless that's what you've already done with IXML with the split windows. (decoded and raw split view?). I can't remember if that's what you've done with the IXML windows. But if it could be split raw and decoded for the AXML in the tab editor it seems that would be ideal I would think.

As it is now, IXML and AXML in the tab editor is very similar to BWFmetaEdit, which is fine with me, but maybe could be better if it displayed XML raw and decoded, split window, the decoded being read-only?
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