Events Move When I Change Tempo

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Sid Chigger
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Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:42 pm

I know I should know this by now but the answer escapes me..

I started a new project..

I use JamStix and I created a 1 bar midi part of a Kik, Snare & Hat and repeat that bar a couple hundred times to use as a click track.. I have several of those described midi tracks - 4/4, 3/4, 6/8, 2/4 etc in that project and I use it as a "template" for new songs..

So, I've got a song rehearsed up and I open that template and Back Up Project, give it a new destination and name and off I go.. I choose the midi track I want to send to JamStix, set my tempo and a recording I go.. Lets say I started it at 160bpm..

I'll do my recording with the usual punches etc.. Now it's time to build the real drum track.. But, I need to cut the tempo in half to 80bpm to get the feel of the drums I want.. When I change the project tempo my punches all shift to the right? All tracks that were recorded from the beginning are ok, but my punch ins shift...

What am I doing wrong?
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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vic_france
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by vic_france » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:10 am

What do you mean when you say "'ll do my recording with the usual punches etc.. Now it's time to build the real drum track.."? Are you recording MIDI into Jamstix, or recording something in audio as an o/dub?
Anyways, it reads like either you have your tracks in Linear Timebase and they should be in Musical Timebase , or the inverse ;).
Mac Pro Quad-Core (2009) 2.66 GHz | 16GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3|MOTU Midi Timepiece AV | Mac OS X 10.9.5 | Cubase 9.5.0| Logic Pro X 10.2.2| ProTools 11.3.1| Ableton Live 9.7.5| Reaper 562 | Studio One Pro 3.5.1

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Sid Chigger
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:48 am

Hi Vic..

I manually draw the kik, snare and hat midi notes into 1 bar and repeat that.. That midi track's output is pointed to a kit in Jamstix that I use as a "click track"..

The tracks I'm recording to that "click track" are all audio... I'll start with a rhy gtr at 1.1.1.0 and record the part.. Then do a scratch vocal starting the recording of that track at 1.1.1.0.. Then add a bass starting at 1.1.1.0..

Then I'll re do the lead vocal starting at 1.1.1.0 and inevitably I'll need to punch in the Chorus, for example at wherever that happens to fall say bar 30.1.1.0.. Using lanes on the same track... So I put the cursor at bar 20.1.1.0 and hit record and sing the chorus when the time comes then stop..

When I change the tempo to 80bpm that chorus punch shifts to the right - not sure but by 80 bars?

All my audio tracks are in Musical Timebase..

They should be in Linear Timebase then?

It's as simple as that? Do I do it from the inspector in the Project window or the Pool or both??

Thanks Vic!

Sid
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:42 am

Sid, baby! What's happening?

Just change it in the Inspector.

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:48 am

Howdy Nate! Been a long cold winter and I'm past ready to go fishin..

So that's it.. Just switch the audio tracks to Linear Timebase in the inspector and I can change tempos at will??

I knew it'd be easy.. Thank ya Vic, thank ya Nate!
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:53 am

I'm not sure this is what you want after reading your first post better. Toggling the timebase will prevent the audio from following the tempo change.

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:54 am

I'm wondering if it's a snap point or such that's causing those parts to move.

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Sid Chigger
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:04 am

Snap is On in the project window..

"Toggling the timebase will prevent the audio from following the tempo change."

That's what I'm looking for though, no? I want the grid (tempo) to change along the timeline but not move my audio events/parts..
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:14 am

Not that snap Sid, If you open the Sample Editor for a part, you see the blue line at the beginning with the S in the middle. This is the snap point.
Sid Chigger wrote:I want the grid (tempo) to change along the timeline but not move my audio events/parts..
Yeah, but toggling the timebase will make the audio not follow the tempo change. You want to slow down the audio to facilitate the drum programming, no?

Does the Pool list the correct original tempo for all the parts that move? Is anything different there?

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by vic_france » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:20 am

Hi Sid,
So, have you done it yet?
If I am understanding correctly, you don't want the audio to change, but allow Cubase's clicktrack to be 80 BPM rather than 160 BPM?
If so, then, yes, just switch all tracks over to Linear Timebase (change the "quarter-note" icon in the Inspector of each track into a "clock icon"). Then change the tempo from 160 BPM to 80 BPM. You can then, if you wish (not essential), set the tracks back to Musical Timebase.
.. oh, yes.. if you don't want the audio to change, you should also make sure that, in the audio Pool, none of the tracks are enabled for "Musical Mode" (which is something different from "Musical Timebase" in the Project window ;) )
Last edited by vic_france on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mac Pro Quad-Core (2009) 2.66 GHz | 16GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3|MOTU Midi Timepiece AV | Mac OS X 10.9.5 | Cubase 9.5.0| Logic Pro X 10.2.2| ProTools 11.3.1| Ableton Live 9.7.5| Reaper 562 | Studio One Pro 3.5.1

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Sid Chigger
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:28 am

"You want to slow down the audio to facilitate the drum programming, no?"

Nate - No.. I do NOT want the audio to slow down at all.. In this case the "click" at 160bpm makes the drum track I create too busy.. So I want to slow down only what JamStix does.. To create "halftime" for the drums in other words..

Vic - No I haven't yet.. I'm at home and my interface here is for this system is down (I'm replacing it).. But I'm going to the studio (where these projects are) tomorrow morning and will try it..

"Yes, just switch all tracks over to Linear Timebase (change the "quarter-note" icon in the Inspector of each track into a "clock icon". Then change the tempo from 160 BPM to 80 BPM. You can then, if you wish (not essential), set the tracks back to Musical Timebase."

Will do - Thank ya both!!
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:34 am

Ah, then vic's got the answer.

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Sid Chigger
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by Sid Chigger » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:37 pm

Yep - Toggling the timebase to Linear did the trick!

Thank ya Guys!!
C 8.5 & WL8 - Win 10 64 - 5960 - 32G - FF UFX - UAD-2 Quad x2, Octo x1

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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by gdogfunk » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:48 am

Hello! I am having the exact same issue with Cubase 5.5.2, but toggling musical/linear mode is not solving my problem.

I am in the process of creating a click track for my drummer and I have used the tempo track to setup a song structure. I created a VST LM-7 Midi track and filled it with 16th notes. The tempo track changes the midi perfectly at keyframed tempo changes and I route the click sound to an audio track (via a group output) so I can record the final click for export with the rest of the audio. Works great.

I have already recorded scratch guitar tracks and after giving the file to my drummer, he needs one of the sections of the song to be slowed to half-time so the click isn't so fast. No matter what I have tried (after extensive searching), whether I toggle musical/linear, checked the pool for enabled musical mode (none were enabled) and examined all possible preferences, whenever I try to lower the tempo of the section in question, the audio events at that time are all shortened.

How can I change the tempo track without affecting the audio data that is already in place?

Please help!

Thank you,

Ryan

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vic_france
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by vic_france » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:53 am

(just to be clear about what you are asking)...
Your "scratch guitar" track is at the desired tempo, but the drummer would rather hear 8th-notes than 16th-notes?
If so, wouldn't it be easier to just edit the MIDI click track for that section (or re-record it)?
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by gdogfunk » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:08 am

That's exactly what I did. But isn't there a way to just edit the tempo without stretching the existing audio? I'm not sure why the time stretch is enabled automatically? Is there a way to turn it off?

Thanks!

Ryan

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vic_france
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Re: Events Move When I Change Tempo

Post by vic_france » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:55 am

gdogfunk wrote:That's exactly what I did. But isn't there a way to just edit the tempo without stretching the existing audio? I'm not sure why the time stretch is enabled automatically? Is there a way to turn it off?

Thanks!

Ryan
I think you are looking at the problem slightly wrongly ;)...
By changing the tempo during that section, you are effectively changing the length of time that the section lasts, irrespective of whether or not the audio is stretched to fit. By halving the tempo, it becomes twice as long (the "unchanged" music now fits into half the number of bars in Cubase), so you'd need also to remove the no-longer-wanted bars, so that the next section of the music still starts at the desired time.
So linear vs musical can't solve the situation by itself.. with the audio track in Linear timebase, and Musical Mode Off, the music will indeed remain unchanged, but will no longer line up with the Tempo Track... you'd need to delete those extra bars from (only) the Tempo Track.
In Musical Mode/Musical Timebase, the recorded music will, ipso facto, stretch to fit the modified Tempo Track.

In short.. your "workaround" is in fact the correct way to do what you were intending ;).
Mac Pro Quad-Core (2009) 2.66 GHz | 16GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3|MOTU Midi Timepiece AV | Mac OS X 10.9.5 | Cubase 9.5.0| Logic Pro X 10.2.2| ProTools 11.3.1| Ableton Live 9.7.5| Reaper 562 | Studio One Pro 3.5.1

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