Export edited video

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Biss
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Export edited video

Post by Biss » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:34 am

I am still on N5 and there is no way to export the editing you do on a video.
Has the situation changed with N6?
Sometimes I mix music for videos and the client just need a couple of cuts here and there. But if I can't save the new video there is no point in doing the cuts! :(

Tumppi Järnefelt
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:04 am

No, Nuendo is audio software. You need video software. And I don´t want the two mixed in one application.
If client wants new cuts for picture I tell him to go to editor, do the changes and send me the new picture.
Considering the whole production chain and delivering the final product this is the only reliable way to do it.
If you are a one man business taking care both video and sound then use right tools for that, like Sony Vegas...

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:36 pm

Tumppi, I'm definitely with you on this one.
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Domilik » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:32 pm

+1 to Tumppi.

But: Right now you even need a video-software to create (bounce) a video-extract! That's way too complicated.
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Biss
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Biss » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:17 am

I am not asking for video editing! I am just asking the possibility to bounce the video file. We already have the ability to cut and paste the video. Ability which is useless if we can't save the result of it.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by gph » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:42 am

No to video editing - but a HUUUGE yes to export selection as Quicktime video with sound!!!! Yes please.

Multiple times every day I provide preview quality videos to clients with sound synchronised. Obviously they're not assessing the video, but they can't assess the sound without the video. My current workflow is to export sound, noting the timecode in-point, open Quicktime Pro, delete it's current sound track, navigate to the correct frame, add to movie, trim the movie to provide a preview of the section being worked on, export the movie.

This is a workflow killer!

Every other major DAW can do a QT export - please, please, please bring this capability to Nuendo!!!

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:55 pm

You are asking for video editing. You wan´t to the ability to export your edited video. That is video editing.
And I still resist.
Video editors are there to make picture edits and it is their responsibility that everything is technically, format vice and every other way as it should be and only the correct picture versions are delivered to clients etc. If this production chain is messed up and something goes wrong whose responsibility it is?
Sound department do sound and video dep. does video. Don´t mix the two unless as I said you do both yourself and then should use right tools to achieve that.
Adding video editing would make Nuendo too heavy program with all the video codecs and compression rates needed etc.
And I´m too scared to even thing how difficult it would be for SB to make it even as bug free as Nuendo is now.

But I give a big yes to exporting a QT video with uncut video track with sound from Nuendo. Just like PT...

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Export edited video

Post by gph » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:00 pm

No Tumppi - not video editing. Just select between two markers and export video and sound into a Quicktime. Simple and essential. Pro Tools does it, Digital Performer does it, Logic does it.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:39 pm

gph wrote:No Tumppi - not video editing. Just select between two markers and export video and sound into a Quicktime. Simple and essential. Pro Tools does it, Digital Performer does it, Logic does it.
I was answering to Biss... 8-)
And as I said in my post, yes to the way PT does it...

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Export edited video

Post by gph » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:29 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
gph wrote:No Tumppi - not video editing. Just select between two markers and export video and sound into a Quicktime. Simple and essential. Pro Tools does it, Digital Performer does it, Logic does it.
I was answering to Biss... 8-)
And as I said in my post, yes to the way PT does it...

Bye / Tumppi
Sorry Tumppi. +1 for that.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Jim Clark » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:18 pm

A big "yes" to this! And to be clear - not video editing - just export the selected region as a video file with synced audio.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by johngar » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:09 pm

Jim Clark wrote:A big "yes" to this! And to be clear - not video editing - just export the selected region as a video file with synced audio.
Yes, a BIG +1
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Robin Walsh » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:45 pm

+1
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Marsman » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:32 pm

Meh.. I´m rather opposed to these "jack of all trades" programs.

Maybe a "bounce to video file",ok.. but then, where does it end with the feature requests.
I don´t want Nuendo to become another Sony Vegas. SB better focus on the audio production features and leave the video stuff to other programs.
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Jim Clark » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:28 pm

Exactly, Marsman - I don't want Nuendo to be a video editing program either (I use Adobe Premiere for that work), but a simple bounce to (choose your file format) video file would greatly simplify work flow for me, and I suspect for others who simply want - or need - to show a client the current sync to pic work that has been done.
For a client to review audio work I have done sync'd to video I have to export the audio file, import into Premiere and then export from Premiere. How I long for a simple bounce to picture button in Nuendo to accomplish this in one step instead of three.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Biss » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:48 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:You are asking for video editing. You wan´t to the ability to export your edited video. That is video editing.
And I still resist.
So, why can we already cut the video in Nuendo? And what would be the difference between exporting uncut video from two markers and exporting a cut video from two markers, since we already can cut videos?
I am not sure what you are resisting. Cutting videos is already there!

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Fredo
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Fredo » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:43 pm

Biss wrote: So, why can we already cut the video in Nuendo?
Because it is needed as a visual reference after (re-)conforming a project.

Cutting and re-arranging a video file is something totally different than generating a new videofile.
It would involve codecs, formats and all of the complicated stuff that videoeditors have to deal with.
As being said by others, we would end up with a Vega's-version.
Which is a totaly different application.

If only the "replace audio in videofile" would work fine ...
But unfortunately you immediately bump into the same sort of problems.
There is no point in adding 48kHz PCM audio in a heavily compressed H264 video file to be send to the client.
So we need to re-convert the video & audio into a smaller format; or add the video in the (same) compressed format as the video. Which makes it all complicated and *never* (read: NEVER) usable for everyone. Simply because we all work (or want) different formats. And the format is dictated by the size of the file. So there is no halfway solution.

(Just my personal opinion ...)
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Re: Export edited video

Post by Biss » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:17 pm

Fredo wrote:
Biss wrote: So, why can we already cut the video in Nuendo?
Because it is needed as a visual reference after (re-)conforming a project.

Cutting and re-arranging a video file is something totally different than generating a new videofile.
It would involve codecs, formats and all of the complicated stuff that videoeditors have to deal with.
As being said by others, we would end up with a Vega's-version.
Which is a totaly different application.

If only the "replace audio in videofile" would work fine ...
But unfortunately you immediately bump into the same sort of problems.
There is no point in adding 48kHz PCM audio in a heavily compressed H264 video file to be send to the client.
So we need to re-convert the video & audio into a smaller format; or add the video in the (same) compressed format as the video. Which makes it all complicated and *never* (read: NEVER) usable for everyone. Simply because we all work (or want) different formats. And the format is dictated by the size of the file. So there is no halfway solution.

(Just my personal opinion ...)
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Ok. I understand. I don't want Steinberg to mess up Nuendo either. Better concentrate on audio.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:03 am

Fredo wrote:
Biss wrote: So, why can we already cut the video in Nuendo?
Because it is needed as a visual reference after (re-)conforming a project.

Cutting and re-arranging a video file is something totally different than generating a new videofile.
It would involve codecs, formats and all of the complicated stuff that videoeditors have to deal with.
As being said by others, we would end up with a Vega's-version.
Which is a totaly different application.

If only the "replace audio in videofile" would work fine ...
But unfortunately you immediately bump into the same sort of problems.
There is no point in adding 48kHz PCM audio in a heavily compressed H264 video file to be send to the client.
So we need to re-convert the video & audio into a smaller format; or add the video in the (same) compressed format as the video. Which makes it all complicated and *never* (read: NEVER) usable for everyone. Simply because we all work (or want) different formats. And the format is dictated by the size of the file. So there is no halfway solution.

(Just my personal opinion ...)
Fredo
Well said!

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Export edited video

Post by gph » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:21 pm

Fredo wrote: There is no point in adding 48kHz PCM audio in a heavily compressed H264 video file to be send to the client.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but there is every point in adding uncompressed audio to compressed video.

I completely agree that Nuendo should not be a video editor! That is indeed the job of Media Composer or Final Cut.

But every day I send high quality audio to directors sync'd to a preview quality video so that they can hear what I've done in relation to the picture. The picture can be low quality. The director is assessing the sound and how it fits with the picture, not the quality of the picture. If the director is happy, then I can pass the audio file to the editor to drop on the picture timeline, or send audio stems as part of a package to the dubbing mix.

Copy video rather than transcode would be fine for this purpose, as neither I nor the director care about the quality of the video during this back-and-forth passing of drafts.

I do this every day, as do many of my colleagues. The difference is, my colleagues tend to use Pro Tools, and so when they create the video previews with uncompressed audio they do it straight from Pro Tools. They don't have to faff around with Quicktime Pro just to provide a director with good audio against low quality video.

This capability would not erode Nuendo's audio only pedigree. It would just bring it in line with what Pro Tools does and what a lot of users need every single day.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Fredo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:00 pm

gph wrote:Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but there is every point in adding uncompressed audio to compressed video.
You got a point, but on the other hand you are totaly missing the point.
Most people want to make Quicktimes for sending them to the client *by email*.
Which means that, when adding uncompressed audio to a 30" commercial, the size of the video (including audio) will be too big to be send by email. Or at least you'll have the risk that it is blocked by a server which doesn't allow big attachments. Most agency accounts avoid at all cost ftp and other delivery method, simply because their clients don't want to deal with it.

You could also argue that the sound department *is the last person* who should be fiddling with video.
It is our responsability to provide audio which is in sync with the video provided.
It's up to the video editors to merge the audio & video and present it to the client.
Point period.

And then there is -probably- the majority who works "somewhere inbetween".
And that "inbetween" usergroup all have different needs and wishes. Which brings me back to my earlier point.

Quicktime pro costs $30. Open video, add audio, export to desired format. Done in 30".
And talking of QT. This format is declared dead and will be burried within a few years.
There is absolutely no point in putting effort into that.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by gph » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:26 pm

I can't speak for a usergroup that can create exports that are small enough to attach to an email.

I am of a usergroup that sends a link to the file in Dropbox/Google Drive/SkyDrive or sends via WeTransfer or similar.

I believe I am part of a usergroup that doesn't really worry about the audio file size - audio is always just sent as 2 channel 48kHz 24 bit. It's always done by links and never attached to an email. This is how I receive cuts from editors and it's how I deliver files to directors/editors/sound tracklayers/dubbing mixers. (Obviously I wouldn't want to be passing high quality video back-and-forth as that would be pointless. I work with sound, so that is what needs to be high quality for directors to review, and the video can be low quality.)

And yes - I have QT Pro as the approach you describe is what I do currently. It takes more than 30 seconds and I want to remove it from my workflow like my lucky Pro Tools and Logic friends.

I'm not worried if QT dies, I still need to export video.

I need this simple export to video capability and I've needed it for a long time. If you don't need it that's fine. I'm airing my need for it.

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Fredo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:02 pm

Well yes, indeed the point is that there are many uses.
And many uses requires many needs and many options.

And please don't reduce this discussion to "you don't need it, so you don't get it".
I would like this as much as you do.

If size doesn't matter ... why don't you use the replace audio in videofile function?
That does it in less than 30".

Fredo

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Re: Export edited video

Post by Marsman » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:24 pm

Jim Clark wrote:Exactly, Marsman - I don't want Nuendo to be a video editing program either (I use Adobe Premiere for that work), but a simple bounce to (choose your file format) video file would greatly simplify work flow for me, and I suspect for others who simply want - or need - to show a client the current sync to pic work that has been done.
For a client to review audio work I have done sync'd to video I have to export the audio file, import into Premiere and then export from Premiere. How I long for a simple bounce to picture button in Nuendo to accomplish this in one step instead of three.
Maybe it didn´t sound that way but I am very much in favor of having an "export to video" function, as I used to have it in Digital Performer. Mark region you want, export, done.
So,
+1 for the suggestion

(although I´d rather have it rendered as mp4. Quicktime is almost dead )

But as we know this would need a complex video render engine added, and I would be very surprised if that happens.
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Re: Export edited video

Post by ipanema » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:23 am

Like many of you I will also be very happy to have that feature in Nuendo. It's true that the existence of that feature in ProTools and Logic would cause the expectation that Nuendo should have it too.

But let's face it: ProTools is Avid, and Logic is Apple, both manufacturers of the most comprehensive and demanding video editing software around, so they know how to include such a feature in their audio software without messing them up. Again, the feature is new to both apps (not sure about PT) but at least it's new to Logic. Before Logic X we couldn't even cut a video clip in Logic 9, a feature that was there in Nuendo for as long as I can remember, and we have used its advantages in situations like when the director calls in the middle of the night to inform us that he has decided to add 46 frames at time blah blah, so that we can cut the video, insert 46 frames and re-sync our sound/music to the picture before he sends us the new edit.

So my point is, as I'm sure you have guessed by now, that expecting Steinberg (with no experience in video editing software) to add an Export Video feature to Nuendo is a bit unfair. SB already have a lot on their hands to satisfy disgruntled customers with audio features that may not be working as expected. IMHO, let them deal with their major problems first. Let them lick their wounds when after each release/update/hot-fix they receive lots of complaints that this or that issue is not fixed yet. Let them concentrate on what they do best. It's hard to stay in the competition with all those big names.

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