How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

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child.stratosphere
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How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by child.stratosphere »

hello ... i'm sure there is an easy way to set this up. :oops: I am using Guitar Rig and the Cubase 7 amp plugins for Guitar and Bass and although theorethically i should only need the clean recording using the plugin as an insert i always start out well and then over the course of the mix i end up messing up the original vibe of the guitar/bass sound. so i think it's best i start working with the processed recording and only keep the dry as a backup. i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.

i've figured out a way to do this but there is a lot of switching involved and i'm looking for an easier setup.
for the moment i have 2 tracks: first track receives the guitar dry signal and has guitar rig as an insert .. so this track will be recorded dry but i set it's output to a group named Guitar. This track has to be record enabled, monitor enabled and can't be muted.

The second track receives the in from the Guitar Group. It has to be record enabled, monitor enabled and muted.

it's a bit complicated but it works but maybe there is a more straigth forward way ? I'd like to be able to immediately lay down another track with the same guitar sound but like it's routed for the moment i have to switch and move around a lot.

thx for any help with this ...
Some of my tracks on http://soundcloud.com/stickman

17" MBP i7 on OSX 10.7 // Hackintosh i7 Asus board on OSX 10.9.2 // Cubase 6.5, 7 & 7.5 // Metric Halo LIO-8 //

thinkingcap
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by thinkingcap »

child.stratosphere wrote:hello ... i'm sure there is an easy way to set this up. :oops: I am using Guitar Rig and the Cubase 7 amp plugins for Guitar and Bass and although theorethically i should only need the clean recording using the plugin as an insert i always start out well and then over the course of the mix i end up messing up the original vibe of the guitar/bass sound. so i think it's best i start working with the processed recording and only keep the dry as a backup. i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.

i've figured out a way to do this but there is a lot of switching involved and i'm looking for an easier setup.
for the moment i have 2 tracks: first track receives the guitar dry signal and has guitar rig as an insert .. so this track will be recorded dry but i set it's output to a group named Guitar. This track has to be record enabled, monitor enabled and can't be muted.

The second track receives the in from the Guitar Group. It has to be record enabled, monitor enabled and muted.

it's a bit complicated but it works but maybe there is a more straigth forward way ? I'd like to be able to immediately lay down another track with the same guitar sound but like it's routed for the moment i have to switch and move around a lot.

thx for any help with this ...
Insert the amp sim into an input channel.
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jose7822
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by jose7822 »

There's no need to record two signals since you're using an amp simulator plugin anyway. All you need to do is bypass the plugin, or remove it completely, to get back to the clean sound you've recorded. Simultaneously recording a dry and wet signal applies only when capturing the sound of a real amp, while getting a DI signal at the same time in case you want to use an amp simulator, in order to give you the most flexibility. But that's not what you're doing. Simply duplicate the first guitar track once you're done with it, freeze it to save CPU cycles, and then record the second guitar part on the duplicate track. Repeat as needed. Done!

HTH
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HughH
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by HughH »

Jose has a good idea.
For some reason I like hard audio tracks on my disk with "origin" info for 10 years from now . . . so . .

Another possibility is to create a second input on you Cubase I/O that uses the same physical interface input.

I believe there is an option to allow this multiple use of one port (I can do it on my system).

The rest is obvious.
Insert Guitar Rig on on of the input channels and use that for your "wet" track.
Mute the "dry" track.

Hugh
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child.stratosphere
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by child.stratosphere »

hello, thanks for chiming in, i think i didn't explain well what i'm after. Of course i realise that i only have to bypass the plugin to get the clean track. And i know that i can put the plugin on an input channel (but then i only get the amped signal and not the clean one).

The reason i'm trying to do this (record both separately). Is because I don't want to always have to duplicate tracks, mute plugins, create new guitar rig instances. I want a quick workflow where i don't loose the cool sound i had during recording because i fiddled with the preset. And be able to quickly create a track, change sound, overlay a track, create another layer, etc.

Also, I don't mind the extra HD space, i can always delete it later. Sometimes i record sth and then let it sit for a long time before i open it up again. I'd like to be able to quickly record a couple of layers and then be able to open this file up years later and still have the original sound and not be disabled because the Amp Plugin i used is not compatible anymore.

I spent the evening yesterday testing various setups and i figured out a nice workflow:
I'm sending the input channel (the input track channel has no output set) to two separate group buses via sends, one of which with the guitar amp plugin, and then use those dry/wet buses as inputs to two other tracks. This way the workflow is quite nice, the tracks recording don't have the plugin so i can audition them right after recording and still overdub with the same setup without re-routing.
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thinkingcap
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by thinkingcap »

child.stratosphere wrote:I spent the evening yesterday testing various setups and i figured out a nice workflow:
I'm sending the input channel (the input track channel has no output set) to two separate group buses via sends, one of which with the guitar amp plugin, and then use those dry/wet buses as inputs to two other tracks. This way the workflow is quite nice, the tracks recording don't have the plugin so i can audition them right after recording and still overdub with the same setup without re-routing.
Input channels don' t have sends - you' re probably talking about audio tracks !? If so, you should read up on input channels as I had said before, a lot simpler...
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HughH
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by HughH »

child.stratosphere wrote:hello, thanks for chiming in, i think i didn't explain well what i'm after. Of course i realise that i only have to bypass the plugin to get the clean track. And i know that i can put the plugin on an input channel (but then i only get the amped signal and not the clean one).
I don't think you understood what I said . . .

Create a second INPUT channel - using the same same physical input from your interface - the one you plugged the guitar into.

Then insert Guitar Rig on this second INPUT channel.
So now you have 2 sources from your guitar - one with the Amp Sim, one without.

Create 2 audio channels.
Route the clean input channel to one - the processed to the other.

Record both, monitoring the processed one.

When done with that take you can go to 2 more channels (duplicate and delete data if you want).
Next take on those channels. No inserting or rerouting or anything.

And you have 2 original files on your Hard Drive, one clean one dirty.

The key is 2 INPUT channels - both getting the SAME guitar signal - one with the Sim and one without.

Hugh
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jose7822
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by jose7822 »

I think the way you're going about it is more convoluted, since it requires a lot of routing. Like I said before, you simply duplicate a track to record another guitar part and freeze the previous one. Done! Freezing the tracks will allow you to open the project at any given time without worrying about loosing the sound because the plugin is not supported anymore, etc. Plus, duplicating a track takes two seconds to do. IMO, of course.

Take care!
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thinkingcap
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by thinkingcap »

jose7822 wrote:I think the way you're going about it is more convoluted, since it requires a lot of routing. Like I said before, you simply duplicate a track to record another guitar part and freeze the previous one. Done! Freezing the tracks will allow you to open the project at any given time without worrying about loosing the sound because the plugin is not supported anymore, etc. Plus, duplicating a track takes two seconds to do. IMO, of course.

Take care!
Child.stratosphere wrote:i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
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jose7822
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by jose7822 »

thinkingcap wrote:
Child.stratosphere wrote:i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.
I read that too, thanks! Unless he's using an old computer, freezing only takes a few seconds. Then again, I forgot we live in the "I want it now!" era :roll:
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thinkingcap
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by thinkingcap »

jose7822 wrote:
thinkingcap wrote:
Child.stratosphere wrote:i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.
I read that too, thanks! Unless he's using an old computer, freezing only takes a few seconds. Then again, I forgot we live in the "I want it now!" era :roll:
Well, if there´s a very simple way to achieve it, why not..?
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jose7822
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by jose7822 »

Good point :)
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child.stratosphere
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by child.stratosphere »

HughH wrote:
child.stratosphere wrote:hello, thanks for chiming in, i think i didn't explain well what i'm after. Of course i realise that i only have to bypass the plugin to get the clean track. And i know that i can put the plugin on an input channel (but then i only get the amped signal and not the clean one).
I don't think you understood what I said . . .

Create a second INPUT channel - using the same same physical input from your interface - the one you plugged the guitar into.
Hugh
oh wow .. indeed i didn't understand :) ... you can have more than one input channel with the same input ? :lol: so cool .. that works brilliantly ... the whole group send thing works as well but is a bit to unintuitive ...

thx
Last edited by child.stratosphere on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Some of my tracks on http://soundcloud.com/stickman

17" MBP i7 on OSX 10.7 // Hackintosh i7 Asus board on OSX 10.9.2 // Cubase 6.5, 7 & 7.5 // Metric Halo LIO-8 //

child.stratosphere
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Re: How to record guitars dry and processed at the same time ?

Post by child.stratosphere »

jose7822 wrote:
thinkingcap wrote:
Child.stratosphere wrote:i would like to do this at recording stage and not have to do it through bouncing afterwards.
Then again, I forgot we live in the "I want it now!" era :roll:
euhm ... wtf ? besides the point on so many levels ...

as to your workflow suggestion .. i've been doin exactly that for ages and it doesn't work for me .. having two input channels and recording dry and 'printed' while recording is what i wanted ...
Some of my tracks on http://soundcloud.com/stickman

17" MBP i7 on OSX 10.7 // Hackintosh i7 Asus board on OSX 10.9.2 // Cubase 6.5, 7 & 7.5 // Metric Halo LIO-8 //

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