[possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

[possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:18 am

1) create new song
2) insert Groove Agent one into instrument track
3) load a kit
4) play a simple kick / hat / snare pattern
5) duplicate track

Result the two tracks clearly play out of sync in a somewhat random pattern. Proove: polarity reverse one of the tracks. Result: Non silence.

I call serious bug:)

Tried the same with Battery - works fine.
Last edited by Lasso on Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Chris Beuermann

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Chris Beuermann » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:40 am

Hello,

system specs ? perhaps you could put them in your forum profile. You can do that in MySteinberg.

Cheers,

Chris

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:52 am

Chris Beuermann wrote:Hello,

system specs ? perhaps you could put them in your forum profile. You can do that in MySteinberg.

Cheers,

Chris
added. Anything else you need to know?
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Chris Beuermann

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Chris Beuermann » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:03 pm

Hello,

no problem here. I loaded the "Banger" kit, duplicated the drum track, placed on a new track with the same drum kit and pressed the phase button. result = silence

perhaps somebody else ?

Cheers,

Chris

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:25 pm

well I'll be damned. Rebooted computer - problem gone. Scary. Wonder what happened.

Edit: BUT THEN - it just returned. I'll investigate further.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:28 pm

Q for Chris:

Did you in fact duplicate the track by right clicking and then "duplicate track"?
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Chris Beuermann

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Chris Beuermann » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:28 pm

I did it with CTRL+D

Cheers,

Chris

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:31 pm

Check this:

If you right click the track and choose "duplicate track" the problem shows.

If you in stead add new track, insert the same plug and load the same preset the problem doesn't show.

Maybe something's wrong with the duplicate track command?
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Chris Beuermann

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Chris Beuermann » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:35 pm

Hello,


still no problems here. everythings works fine.

perhaps somebody else ?

cheers,

Chris

User avatar
JHP
Member
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:58 pm
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by JHP » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:46 pm

Lasso wrote:Check this:

If you right click the track and choose "duplicate track" the problem shows.

If you in stead add new track, insert the same plug and load the same preset the problem doesn't show.

Maybe something's wrong with the duplicate track command?
I couldnt reproduce as well, i used the right click on track "dublicate track" command. Perhaps you could attache the problematic cpr in which the problem occures to one of your posts.

Gr,
JHP
Jan Peters, QA
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

Tomateck
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:08 pm
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Tomateck » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:48 pm

No problem here.
Duplicated track with right click on track and choose "duplicate track".
Work fine.
Cubase 6, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, iMac Intel i3 3Ghz, 12GB ram.

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:11 pm

Really??? That's totally strange. I can reproduce it 100 %. Only happens with Groove Agent One. Tried numerous other plugins.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:30 pm

Happens in Cubase 5 as well. Here at least.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:55 pm

OMG...sometimes it happens...sometimes it doesn't. Could some of please try and do it a number of times and see if it happens? I'm going nuts.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

User avatar
sturgeon
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by sturgeon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:59 pm

Sample rate related perhaps?
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, IC Pro, W10 Pro x64, Xeon X5675 (4gHz Hexa Core 12 Thread), Asus P6T, 12 GB 1600 MHz Corsair Triple Channel RAM, Samsung EVO 840 SSD x 1, 2 x SATA300 HD, EMU 1616m PCIE. Coolermaster V 700W PSU, ATI R5 230 2GB Passive GPU. 2 x 22" Benq Monitors, Focusrite VRM

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:02 pm

sturgeon wrote:Sample rate related perhaps?
Nope - in my test it's the same project. I have the origonal track which I keep duplicating / deleting. It happens randomly. Please try this: duplicate - test - delete second track. duplicate - test - delete second track.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

User avatar
sturgeon
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by sturgeon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:33 pm

Confirmed. Duplicated 8th hh pattern randomly drifts out of time. Project setup 96kHz 32bit float in C6 x64
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, IC Pro, W10 Pro x64, Xeon X5675 (4gHz Hexa Core 12 Thread), Asus P6T, 12 GB 1600 MHz Corsair Triple Channel RAM, Samsung EVO 840 SSD x 1, 2 x SATA300 HD, EMU 1616m PCIE. Coolermaster V 700W PSU, ATI R5 230 2GB Passive GPU. 2 x 22" Benq Monitors, Focusrite VRM

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:39 pm

sturgeon wrote:Confirmed. Duplicated 8th hh pattern randomly drifts out of time. Project setup 96kHz 32bit float in C6 x64
AHA!vAnd how much does it drift? Here it's only a matter of a few samples as far as I can tell. At least @ 44.1
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

User avatar
sturgeon
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by sturgeon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Enough to sound like there are occasional 32nds added to the original straight 8ths. (Honey Bee Kit)

Strange thing is I changed to Banger Kit and couldn't hear it, changed back to Honey Bee and thought it had gone away, but it came back after about 5 or 6 repeats of the part.
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, IC Pro, W10 Pro x64, Xeon X5675 (4gHz Hexa Core 12 Thread), Asus P6T, 12 GB 1600 MHz Corsair Triple Channel RAM, Samsung EVO 840 SSD x 1, 2 x SATA300 HD, EMU 1616m PCIE. Coolermaster V 700W PSU, ATI R5 230 2GB Passive GPU. 2 x 22" Benq Monitors, Focusrite VRM

Conman
Senior Member
Posts: 2116
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:31 am

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Conman » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:10 pm

Lasso, what's your bit rate there? Quantise value may be useful to us and also what sort of beat. Simple 8s on hat and bass / snare 4s etc. Does it affect all the kit beats or more evident on the hats say? Or. Did anything disappear when you did the phase inversion? What I'm trying to get at is is it the whole track or just the parts within. Get the info line up at the top, highlight the two tracks one by one and see where they start. If one starts different than the other then it's the whole track moved.
Is this evident on other VSTis? (honest it started out as a one-line question?!)

And could it be connected to something like the snap quant value? Though it shouldn't matter on a straight duplication but you never know sometimes.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:45 pm

@ Conman.

I don't think it has anything to do with quantize, snap or anything related to that.

Here's what I do:

1) empty song

2) create instrument with Groove Agent One and some preset. Create any pattern of sounds - doesn't have to be a beat - just record some notes.

3) I right click the track and then duplicate the entire track, using the "duplicat tracks" command. So the instrument and midi and preset chosen is an exact copy of the first track.

What happens is one of two thing, and it seems random:

1) the track is duplicated and plays as it should: an exact copy so all is heard is a level raise
2) the two tracks plays "out a sync". It's not noticeable as a delay but more as the typical "smear" when you for example do parallel processing with a plugin that doesn't work with latency compensation. Sort of comb filtering. It's quite nasty.
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

User avatar
sturgeon
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by sturgeon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:59 pm

Exactly the same here, but mine is either perfect or has a noticable delay.

Sometimes it will play perfectly for a minute or so, then the timing error starts, then it might stop and correct itself or just continue. A bit like a dodgy random slapback effect.
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, IC Pro, W10 Pro x64, Xeon X5675 (4gHz Hexa Core 12 Thread), Asus P6T, 12 GB 1600 MHz Corsair Triple Channel RAM, Samsung EVO 840 SSD x 1, 2 x SATA300 HD, EMU 1616m PCIE. Coolermaster V 700W PSU, ATI R5 230 2GB Passive GPU. 2 x 22" Benq Monitors, Focusrite VRM

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:08 pm

sturgeon wrote:Exactly the same here, but mine is either perfect or has a noticable delay.
Perhaps our different experiences are sample rate related. Tried testing @ 44.1?
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

User avatar
sturgeon
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by sturgeon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:09 pm

I'm sure you are right. I deleted the original, started a new project entering straight 8ths using the line tool. Duplicated the track, same result. Horrible! Completely random too.
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, IC Pro, W10 Pro x64, Xeon X5675 (4gHz Hexa Core 12 Thread), Asus P6T, 12 GB 1600 MHz Corsair Triple Channel RAM, Samsung EVO 840 SSD x 1, 2 x SATA300 HD, EMU 1616m PCIE. Coolermaster V 700W PSU, ATI R5 230 2GB Passive GPU. 2 x 22" Benq Monitors, Focusrite VRM

Lasso
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:10 am
Contact:

Re: [possible BUG]: Groove Agent One drifts in timing

Post by Lasso » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:54 pm

Guess what - I just tested @ 96 kHz and here it reacts just like Sturgeon descripes. There's definately something samplerate related going on here!

Time to call the bug?

Steinberg?
2015 MBP Retina @ 2,8 gHz, High Sierra, Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9, UAD Apollo Twin, UAD Apollo Satellite Quad TB

Post Reply

Return to “Older Cubase versions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests