still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

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msy
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still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:35 pm

Quote from Access Virus TI OS 5.0 release info:
"Side chaining into audio instruments is currently not supported in Steinberg Cubase. This
issue needs to be addressed by Steinberg."

I've been wanting to do this in Cubase for several years. Any news for 7.x?

Maybe I should put this up as a Feature Request.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Keith99 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:16 pm

If they supported VST3 they could have sidechain

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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Keith99 wrote:If they supported VST3 they could have sidechain
They do but Cubase doesn't support it!
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Keith99 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:42 pm

weird. I have a number of VST3s from various companies and side chain works fine in them

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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:24 pm

Keith99 wrote:weird. I have a number of VST3s from various companies and side chain works fine in them
I think he is talking about the Virus, which is a slightly different scenario than a VSTi.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:14 pm

I am talking about VST Instruments, not VST Effects.
I have no problem with side chaining with VST3 Effects, only in VST3 Instruments. Like the Access Virus TI VSTi.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:16 pm

msy wrote:I am talking about VST Instruments, not VST Effects.
I have no problem with side chaining with VST3 Effects, only in VST3 Instruments. Like the Access Virus TI VSTi.
It works with VST3 Instruments too, just not external instruments using the VSTi interface (like th TI).
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:18 pm

JMCecil wrote:
Keith99 wrote:weird. I have a number of VST3s from various companies and side chain works fine in them
I think he is talking about the Virus, which is a slightly different scenario than a VSTi.
The Virus TI VSTi is a normal VSTi. No difference in VSTi specifications. It works in other DAWs.

(Im not using it as an external instrument)
Last edited by msy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:22 pm

msy wrote:The Virus TI VSTi is a normal VSTi. No difference in VSTi specifications.
(Im not using it as an external instrument)
So, you have the external synth disconnected and all the sounds are coming from the plugin?
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:29 pm

JMCecil wrote:
msy wrote:The Virus TI VSTi is a normal VSTi. No difference in VSTi specifications.
(Im not using it as an external instrument)
So, you have the external synth disconnected and all the sounds are coming from the plugin?
You dont seem to know how the Virus TI works. It is DSP just like UAD. VST is VST. And yes, I only use the USB.
It works fine in all the other big DAWs.

What VST3 Instruments that has sidechain input are you talking about - that works with Cubase?
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:39 pm

msy wrote:
JMCecil wrote:
msy wrote:The Virus TI VSTi is a normal VSTi. No difference in VSTi specifications.
(Im not using it as an external instrument)
So, you have the external synth disconnected and all the sounds are coming from the plugin?
You dont seem to know how the Virus TI works. It is DSP just like UAD. VST is VST. And yes, I only use the USB.
It works fine in all the other big DAWs.

What VST3 Instruments that has sidechain input are you talking about - that works with Cubase?
disconnect that USB and let me know how that goes for you.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:10 pm

JMCecil wrote:disconnect that USB and let me know how that goes for you.
DSP based VST Plugins are the exact same as plugins run on native CPU when it comes to input/output interfaces - they follow the same VST specifications / SDK. Either you are trolling, or you actually think that this has something to do with with the fact that DSP is used instead av native CPU. It is not so.

You said that some other VST3 Instruments can take side chain input signal within Cubase. Can you please tell me an example of such a VST Instrument?

This feature has been well requested before, both in this forum but also in the old forum:
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic. ... 81f50301e3
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by ruffindajungle » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:42 pm

[/quote]
disconnect that USB and let me know how that goes for you.[/quote]

lol connect your virus usb with your printer and let me know how that goes for you :!:
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by theRoyal1 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Side chaining into audio instruments is currently not supported in Steinberg Cubase. This
issue needs to be addressed by Steinberg.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Svenne » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:09 pm

From what I can see on the Access home page, it's not a VSTi at all. It's more of a control-panel for the hardware synth. All audio generation is made in the hardware, not in the Access Control Plug-in.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Elektrobolt » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:37 am

Svenne wrote:From what I can see on the Access home page, it's not a VSTi at all. It's more of a control-panel for the hardware synth. All audio generation is made in the hardware, not in the Access Control Plug-in.
http://www.virus.info/virusti/specs (check the "Software" section)
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Svenne » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:38 am

Elektrobolt wrote:
Svenne wrote:From what I can see on the Access home page, it's not a VSTi at all. It's more of a control-panel for the hardware synth. All audio generation is made in the hardware, not in the Access Control Plug-in.
http://www.virus.info/virusti/specs (check the "Software" section)
I did.
Virus Control VST/AU/RTAS compatible virtual instrument plug-in included to create an audio link in between the host sequencer and Virus hardware synthesizer.
I.e. The plug-in only controls the hardware. The actual audio is generated in the hardware not in the plug-in! According to the description, it should be regarded as a specialised audio interface, not a VSTi.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:35 pm

Svenne wrote:Virus Control VST/AU/RTAS compatible virtual instrument plug-in included to create an audio link in between the host sequencer and Virus hardware synthesizer.
I.e. The plug-in only controls the hardware. The actual audio is generated in the hardware not in the plug-in! According to the description, it should be regarded as a specialised audio interface, not a VSTi.
Yes, the plugin controls the hardware, ie the DSP in the hardware. But the audio is sent via USB, by option, to the VSTi Interface so it acts exactly as any normal VSTi. It's not that it doesn't work at all in Cubase, it just the sidechain INPUT features like the Vocoder can't be used in VST Instrument mode. It CAN be loaded as VST Effect and then it works, but then you can only have ONE output instead of THREE stereo outputs. Of course you can use it as an external synth also, and use your soundcards inputs. But then you loose the whole concept of TI.

Have you heard about a company called Universial Audio? Would you say that their UAD-2 DSP Cards and the VST plugins aren't real VST plugins just because the audio is calculated through DSP and not inte computers CPU?

Anyways. This topic is about VST Instrument sidechain INPUT and not about the Virus TI.
All other major DAWs supports VST Instruments sidechain, but not Cubase.

Steinberg knows about this issue and they have acknowledged it.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Puma0382 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:01 pm

UAD cards have DSP chips to support their VST EFFECTS..! There are no instruments AFAIK.

Your opening quote from Access Virus TI also says it right there, that SB's Cubase doesn't support sidechaining into audio instruments (i.e. they are making the distinction between VST instruments and audio instruments - hardware, in other words).

So, it is the title of your thread that is wrong/misleading. Maybe:-

"Still no sidechain into external audio hardware"
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:03 pm

UAD cards have DSP chips to support their VST EFFECTS..! There are no instruments AFAIK.
Correct. And The Virus TI CAN also be run as a VST Effect - and then it works with sidechain audio input! :lol:
Your opening quote from Access Virus TI also says it right there, that SB's Cubase doesn't support sidechaining into audio instruments (i.e. they are making the distinction between VST instruments and audio instruments - hardware, in other words).
No, you are making the wrong assumption. If you really want to know about this, go to their forum or talk to Steinberg.
So, it is the title of your thread that is wrong/misleading. Maybe:-

"Still no sidechain into external audio hardware"
Hehe, that makes no sense at all. External Audio Hardware having audio input has nothing to do with Cubase.
You are totally missunderstanding. The difference here is between VST EFFECT and VST INSTRUMENT. Cubase already supports sidechaining audio input to VST EFFECTS but NOT to VST INSTRUMENTS.

Cubase doesn't support sidechaining audio input to VST Instruments. Period. Or do you know ANY VST Instrument that has sidechaining audio input support that ALSO works with Cubase? (I'm honest in my question here)

It's part of the VST(i)3 spec but Steinberg chose not to implement it into Cubase. Priorities. Other DAWs can do this already.

So, let me explain again about the Virus TI:
The Virus TI can take audio input if you load it a VST INSERT EFFECT in Cubase (or if you use it as pure hardware and hard wire the synth's input to any audio output source).
But NOT when loading the Virus TI as a VST Instrument. THIS is a problem with Cubase. This works in other DAWs. :?
So why even bother maybe you wonder? Well, The Virus TI is multitimbral, but if you load it as an VST Effect you loose the possibility to use the rest of the stereo outputs. One vocoder and then you are full. And as I said before, Steinberg already acknowledged this a long time ago.

The thread subject is perfectly correct. :ugeek:
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by mroekalea » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:16 pm

That's what I would call hardware accelerated vst(I).

For your info the UAD, TC Powercore and Creamware/Soniccore dsp platforms look like real vts's but all have the same shortcoming when coming to audiop rendering namly that it has to be done in realtime, I guess your Virus TI cannot render faster hen realtime like the " native" vst(I) can. There is the difference, the processing of audio is done externally vs native vst(s) done by the CPU.

I have worked years and years with these hardware DSP platforms and I know they do not compare to native vst plugs!
Processing audio out of the box has serious limitations and the marketing quotes for such products are often misleading!
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Puma0382 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:11 pm

msy wrote: The thread subject is perfectly correct. :ugeek:
Ok, sorry - seems I have misunderstood a few things here..! :oops:

Thanks for your further insight (and patience to explain..!)
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by Svenne » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:58 pm

mroekalea wrote:I have worked years and years with these hardware DSP platforms and I know they do not compare to native vst plugs!
I agree that UAD have some excellent quality emulations of classic effect units. However, with the power of modern computers, native versions are very close behind. There are excellent sounding native emulations out there aswell.

Hardware accelerated VST/VSTi's have one major drawback, though. With native plug-ins, you can work in non-realtime. With hardware accelerated ones you can't. You must work in realtime!

With the native option, you can use instruments and processors who's requirements far exceeds your computer's power. This comes particularly evident when it comes time to do the final mix. With native plug-ins you can use as many as you like (far more than your computer can handle in realtime), exchange preview algorithms for high quality ones, etc. O.K. it might take 20 minutes to mix a 5 minute song, but it can easily be done.

With the accelerated option, on the other hand, you first need to transform all the hardware accelerated tracks to audio tracks in realtime, before you can mix in non-realtime.

It's my opinion that all of UAD's plug-ins could be converted to native formats, with no lowering of audio quality what so ever. The hardware is, in my mind, nothing more than a huge copy-protection dongle.

I was considering buying a UAD system. However, after looking at what's out there and weighing the pros (minute sound quality improvement) and cons (cost and realtime operation restrictions), I've decided not to. The more powerful our computers become, the harder it becomes to justify the downsides of hardware accelerated solutions.
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Re: still no sidechain into VST Instruments?

Post by msy » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:22 pm

This thread is very old. Anyways, now in Cubase 9, sidechain input in VST Instruments is possible. Which prooves my point. :)
Cubase Pro 9.5.41 on Windows 7 using jBridge for 32bit plugins (production)
Cubase 10.5.0 in Windows 7 (testing...)
HALion 6.3
Soundcard: RME Digiface USB with ADA8200
DAW: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.6 GHz |
ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 8GB DDR3 1600MHz | Samsung EVO SSD 250GB | 2x2TB SATA2 | Geforce 460Ti
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