GUI visuals question

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MattiasNYC
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GUI visuals question

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:07 pm

When I look at the mixer and its channel strip - which I really like the functionality of btw - I have a bit of a hard time reading the knob positions at times. I realize that I can't fully tell what this will be like until I have the software sitting in front of me, but the question seems pertinent since people have different tastes and quality eyesight:

To what extent will we be able to change the colors / saturation etc?

Is it possible to NOT have knobs but some other visual feedback?

and, specifically:

Does the Brickwall Limiter show absolute numerical values so we can set it to limit hard at, say, -10dbFS?
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:43 pm

My next comment and question is about the Control Room mixer. It doesn't look anything like a mixer in the shots I've seen so far.

What I love about the "old" control room mixer is that it looks like a regular mixer with some stuff added to it. It's pretty clean looking. This new "sidebar" that can be engaged in a regular mixer window is something I hate right now. It's very cluttered looking to me. I get the intent of it and it's a good one, but again the graphics of it just bother me like nothing else. It is, for example, a bit hard to see where the "line" is on the bar that indicates level, if that bar is under the text/name of that channel. So again it begs the question of whether we can properly adjust this so that those with poor color perception or just not great vision can see this more clearly? And of course:

Will we be able to have "the old view" of the control room mixer?
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by DTSR » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:26 pm

despite the many great additions, i would also rather not have this virtual knob array, or at the very least, be able to toggle between this new configuration and the one we currently have, but I guess that not going to be an option.

This fixed channel strip concept is retrogressive, the only reason I can see for this is the Yamaha Nuage tie in, what we are getting is a UI that looks more like the preconfigured front-end of a digital console rather a forward thinking DAW mixer.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:58 pm

I mostly agree: ugly graphics, great functionality.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Humanizer » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:27 am

One of the good news despite of different taste of eachone, is that new GUI seems to be more usable with touchscreens. It's a good progress. Isn't it?

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by johngar » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:58 am

Lydiot wrote:Does the Brickwall Limiter show absolute numerical values so we can set it to limit hard at, say, -10dbFS?
I have Cubase 7, and the knobs on the Limiter will show the numerical value when you hover over them, if you double click in the pane, you can type in any numerical value you like. So if the Nuendo 6 mixer is like C7 , then yes.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:44 am

Maybe it's touchscreen friendly (I agree that it shouldn't be the only option), but why it's that ugly?

If you look the new plugins and the mixer, they look like, and let me say in this way, they were cheap. I know it's just a graphic layer, but it looks unprofessional, and it's hard enough to convince your clients about why you are not using Pro Tools.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Humanizer » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Bredo wrote: Not even a jumbo touch screen, which would be placed to far for my arm to reach.
mmmh, remember the age where u had to put ur ass off and shake a leg to go tweak a knob at the upper right corner of the 64channel SSL mixer :lol:


sometimes, i use to put som plugins GUI on my third 24'monitor witch is a touchsceen ,
and it's just more efficient to tweak sound this way than with the mouse , specially with some plug with a good GUI like UAD lexicon 224 or some Arturias (SEM V) for example.
just regret that multitouch hasn't yet implemented.
seems Nuendo 6gui will allows this kind of thing to be done more efficienly, and it's good for lot of people who need more nomad solutions. as take the laptop and just an external touchscreen as a controller.
why not?

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by rav » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:33 pm

Lydiot wrote:My next comment and question is about the Control Room mixer. It doesn't look anything like a mixer in the shots I've seen so far.

What I love about the "old" control room mixer is that it looks like a regular mixer with some stuff added to it. It's pretty clean looking. This new "sidebar" that can be engaged in a regular mixer window is something I hate right now. It's very cluttered looking to me. I get the intent of it and it's a good one, but again the graphics of it just bother me like nothing else. It is, for example, a bit hard to see where the "line" is on the bar that indicates level, if that bar is under the text/name of that channel. So again it begs the question of whether we can properly adjust this so that those with poor color perception or just not great vision can see this more clearly? And of course:

Will we be able to have "the old view" of the control room mixer?
Not sure, but seems that we will have the old control room mixer.

Copied from the cubase forum:

"Will the control room window still be available as a smaller floating window or is it only available on the mixer now?
Yes, you can open it MixConsole or as separate window on its own."

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:55 pm

rav wrote:
Lydiot wrote:Will we be able to have "the old view" of the control room mixer?
Not sure, but seems that we will have the old control room mixer.

Copied from the cubase forum:

"Will the control room window still be available as a smaller floating window or is it only available on the mixer now?
Yes, you can open it MixConsole or as separate window on its own."
I got the impression though that the look of it will be the new look even if it's "floating".
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by rav » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:21 pm

Could be.

I really hope not. When something works don´t change it.

Changing the control room mixer for that tiny window is a nonsense.

Will see.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Fredo » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:57 pm

The new mixer takes some time to get used to.
Most of us betatesters had doubts about the new mixer, but as it turns out, most of the comments boil down to the fact that we are old farts and we don't want *anything* to change to what we are used to, even if the change is for the better. It's new, it's different, and that scrares people off. But it will grow on you. That is if you are open minded and are willing to put a little effort into it. There are things in there which I think are amazing, while others feel the opposite way. There are thing of which I think are a step backwards, but that others seem to love very much.
I've done one feature movie in Nuendo6 by now, and can honestly say that the "old" mixer feels like a thing of the past by now. Outdated, not flexible and short of features.


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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Rotund » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:28 am

Can't believe what is going on over on the Cubase pages...
Hope all this is tweaked and worked out long before we (Nuendo Users) take the plunge.

Also can't believe that some of them were trying to do sessions with clients present
after a software upgrade of this Magnitude.

wtf???

Fredo, what were the specs of the machine or machines you used to do the movie?
I'm building a new machine and would like to know what you are using.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Fredo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:38 am

Intel Core 7CPU x980 @ 3.33 Ghz.
12GB of Ram.
Win7 64 bit; Nuendo 64bit.

Running near to 300 tracks, two dozen group tracks and a gazillion of SFX, edited dialog and Foley edits.
The system doesn't even blink.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:51 am

I'm testing Cubase 7 along Nuendo 5.5 and it needs a 30% more CPU for the SAME task, with the same plugins, even with the ASIO Guard off. The demo project uses most of the resources available for Nuendo but it works well in Cubase 7, even needing a lot of more CPU resources, so it seems like it's more efficient.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:55 am

This is a suggestion from the Cubase forum that I agree:

[img]http://www.xtigma.com/inserts.jpg[/img]

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 75&t=29593
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Fredo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:01 am

Antonio, you are comparing apples and oranges.

The calculating and the display of the ASIO meter was changed/improved. So the values are not comparable one to one between C6 and C7.

Secondly, with the ASIO Guard you can push the ASIO meter into much higher values than in C6 before getting drop outs.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by csd » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:03 am

Rotund wrote:Can't believe what is going on over on the Cubase pages...
Hope all this is tweaked and worked out long before we (Nuendo Users) take the plunge.
.
C7 isn't the disaster some of those threads would seem to imply. C7 is working well here.
Not perfect in every area, but seems as stable as C6.5.

Ditto on the insert look change - it's very hard to read now. Same with the channel strip - could be useful from time to time, but it's too hard to read as well.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:10 am

Fredo wrote:Antonio, you are comparing apples and oranges.

The calculating and the display of the ASIO meter was changed/improved. So the values are not comparable one to one between C6 and C7.

Secondly, with the ASIO Guard you can push the ASIO meter into much higher values than in C6 before getting drop outs.

Fredo
No this time Fredo: I'm using the Mac OS Activity Monitor. I realized long time ago that I can't trust to the CPU meter :-D
So when I say that it's over a 30% more, I'm measuring it with a trustable tool.

I agree about the ASIO Guard thing :-)
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by KMNA » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:45 pm

Hi everyone!

I agree with the complaints about N6's new looks.
I don't see any point in having knobs and LEDs in a 21st century DAW GUI - as far as professional workflow is in mind.
True, we are in the middle of this touch-screen insanity, and if Steinberg sees the urge to become compatible, do so. I absolutely understand these efforts. But please let us go on using professional tools for our work.

Mixing on an analogue desk is totally different than mixing in a DAW. Mixing in a DAW with imitated analog interface is time-consuming, inaccurate, and unprofessional. And in my opinion, getting used to it is possible, but must be avoided.

It's not about taste, I bet most of us simply need instant numeric values to be able to work efficiently, and to be able to trust the daw, to be sure what we're doing. Please take these complaits seriously, as we are the purchasers of your products.

Yours, Gabor

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:47 pm

I've been working all the day with C7 and the new tools are great, the new plugins sound nice, but the the new interface behavior is messy and inaccurate. I'm almost sure that most the CPU load is due the new graphic layer, and sometimes it behaves weirdly or lacks a important option. For example, you can't write the value of a damn sent!

The 90s gradient color style graphics are confusing, and it sometimes makes things unreadable.

The new editor window uses more space than ever before, and you can't have anything available in one page. You're forced to use several pages to access things that I use to have in the same layer.

Even having new great features, this is a true lost opportunity to do something remarkable with the interface.
Last edited by Antonio Escobar on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:10 pm

I don't think it's necessary to have two different GUIs. Cubase will be always a good entry point to Nuendo, so it should look similar. For example, I use Cubase on my laptop when I'm out of the studio.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Antonio Escobar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:49 pm

Let's see what happens with N6, but I don't think it will be too different. I think I'm extending my time with N5.5/6.5 longer that I expected. Anyway, I keep an eye on Presonus Studio One (I have a version that was included with a sound card) and Pro Tools.
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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by Humanizer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:25 am

KMNA wrote: Mixing on an analogue desk is totally different than mixing in a DAW. Mixing in a DAW with imitated analog interface is time-consuming, inaccurate, and unprofessional. And in my opinion, getting used to it is possible, but must be avoided.
Totally different? As we use tracks , audio path , eq's, groups, effects sends , studio sends,automation, etc... Like any analog OR digital mixing desk OR advanced surfaces control ?
The big difference is that we use a computer interface with keyboard and mouse for years. And this interface is gathering dust for certain task.

I m sure that tactile interface have a good headroom of progress. Not because it's the hype of the moment, but because it CAN be really lot more efficient.

Example : Compare usage of the Hardware version or the famous Korg ms 20 , the VST version, and the IPad version.
The best tweaking experience is on the real hardware, because the real touch and feel knobs and instant reactivity.
Tweaking The VST with only mouse is slower and don't push you to be more creative .
iPad version benefits of the multitouch feature of the iPad witch is reactive, u can achieve a good research of interesting sounds, very efficiently.
Because lack of sound , the iPad version stay as a toy, hardware version is rare, expensive and difficult to incorpore in a daw world,

Maybe the new Nuendo mixer interface will permit to develop a quickest way to use than with mouse.

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Re: GUI visuals question

Post by rav » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

I have been checking the cubase 7 mixer video tutorials on youtube and I can say that I love some of the new functionality of mixer but really hate the new GUI. No relevant information on it, just bars and knobs, no values. Scrolling and tab structure doesn´t help either to have a preview of channels parameters.

Really hope to have at least numerical values on parameters preference option and something similar to the old mixer show inserts,eq... buttons and the possibility to assign them to key commands, for not having to scroll back and forth.

As said great new functionality poor visual feedback of track parameters.

Best Regards.

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