Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

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Mikael
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Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:35 am

I experience a very disturbing issue with Cubase 6 together with 2 rme Multiface II interfaces (using 2 HSDPe interface cards).

If everything works fine, the system would start up, Cubase starts our default project, and the external latency meter shows a 5.4 ms roundtrip latency, this is at 64 samples buffer size.

But since a few months, after startup the system exhibits a random huge latency value, in the rage of 300 to 800 ms or so. Sometimes, if I open the rme settings dialog and switch between buffer sizes, the system comes back to 5.4ms latency. Often it takes many attempts of switching back and forth until the system settles at the normal latency. Sometimes, however, it does not help at all. Restarting the system anew sometimes helps, other times not.

This is a live performance setup and this bug is very disturbing for our work. Often I sit there, the artists wait and the system lets me down...

We use 2 independent PCs here with comparable setup and both systems exhibit the same symptoms. Both PCs (Dell Precision workstations) run Windows 7 64 bit with 2 rme HSDPe cards attached to 2 Multiface II. One of the PCs runs Cubase 6.5.3, the other 6.5.1. The Cubase ASIO performance meter runs around 50% on both systems, but the systoms also show up with test projects using barely any ASIO performance.

We did set up our Cubase projects anew from scratch, this did not help. We deinstalled all rme drivers, switched cards around in the slots - no difference.

We have been messing around with this issue since a long time and invested lots of energy in finding a solution. Basically we need systems which start and run stable each time we start them up...

Any help appreciated.

regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

Dave Wise
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Dave Wise » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:06 am

Just a suggestion

I also used to use the RME Multiface - but had similar issues to you.

My problem was that every time Microsoft updated Windows (which is at least every 2 weeks) - I would have to re-install the RME drivers.
Which as I remember was quite a tricky process.

Could you try using another sound card?
That was my solution to the problem.

I changed to the Steinberg 816csx when it came out - and have had only a few minor driver issues.
I also have used this live on many occasions - I have always found it completely reliable.

I haven't missed the RME Multiface - and I know of at least one more person who has had the same issues too.

As you say - 'when' it's working - it's great!

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Transistor
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Transistor » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:29 am

Just a suggestion, but have you remembered to instruct Windows to NOT use the RME as its standard soundcard? There might be some conflict here, where Win updates itself, whereupon the driver switches from RME's ASIO driver to some generic one (thus increasing the latency).

r,
j,
i7-5820K/16384/Win10
CPro9.5.41/WLPro9.5.35/Motu128/RME HDSPe AES/Mytek 8x192 (+ Aurora 8) + [mobile rig] RME Babyface/CAI9.5.41
Plugins. Hardware.

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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:32 am

Mikael wrote:But since a few months, after startup the system exhibits a random huge latency value, in the rage of 300 to 800 ms or so. Sometimes, if I open the rme settings dialog and switch between buffer sizes, the system comes back to 5.4ms latency.

Does Cubase report the 300 to 800 ms latency or did you test it with a RTL utility?
Did you already run a DPC test when latency is high to check if the system runs smooth?

Did you post your question to the RME Forum too?
They obviously know more about RME specific issues ;)

Mikael
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:37 am

niles wrote:
Mikael wrote:Does Cubase report the 300 to 800 ms latency or did you test it with a RTL utility?
Did you already run a DPC test when latency is high to check if the system runs smooth?

Did you post your question to the RME Forum too?
They obviously know more about RME specific issues ;)
- the latency is reported by an external hardware latency meter
- DPC test shows everything is perfect
- yes posted over there as well, and rme says it is most likely a Cubase issue...

Regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:58 am

Hi there,

please send me the link to the RME forum thread, so I can take a look.

And additionally which VST Plug-Ins do you use in your "live-setup" project exactly?

Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

Mikael
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:07 pm

Hello Marcus,

thank you for showing up. The forum thread at rme is http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic ... 003#p77003.

However, the answer I received was through email:
I'm afraid I have no explanation, but would assume it is a Cubase issue, not an RME one. Changing latency resets the driver, so this should help.Have you contacted Steinberg?
Regards, Daniel Fuchs, RME
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:17 pm

Hi there,

thank you for the link.

Which VST Plug-Ins do you use in the "live- performance" project exactly?


Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

Mikael
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Which VST Plug-Ins do you use in the "live- performance" project exactly?
We are using Izotope's Nectar & Alloy plugins in tracking mode (zero latency) and SIR2 as a reverb, also in zero latency mode.

Once the systems settle at regular latency, all works like a charm, no performance issues as far as I can see.

Regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:47 pm

Hi there,

so it is not a Cubase or an RME issue.

The Izotope Nectar produces at least 721 ms additionall latency. there is no zero latency mode available and this
is the reported latency to Cubase (I have got a Nectar installed to my system).
I do not know if the SIR Reverb also creates an additional latency.

This VST Plug-In can only be used for a live performance, if you can handle this.
But I would recommend not to use it, it is definitely not a "live performance" VST Plug-In.

So everything seems to be fine if you just remove the VST Plug-Ins.


Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

Mikael
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Re: [Solved] Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:01 pm

Sorry Marcus,

this is not the solution. Just to make things clear - I have tried everything I can come up with for weeks before I decided to post here.

If I disable or remove all plugins, the issue remains.

Also,if you use Nectar, just as a hint: you can switch between mixing and tracking mode, where tracking mode is the zero latency one. Both of my systems are used for live performance with many Nectar instances, and they are doing so perfectly well with 5.4 ms overall latency (which is just the ASIO latency at 64 samples buffer size) without any additional latency induced by plugins.

Regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:20 pm

Hi there,


The Izotope Nectar reports at least a latency of 61,161ms on my system (VST 2) at 16bit at 44.1KHz.
I use the Nectar version 1.12
It is always at least at 721 Samples on my system, regardless if I use Mixing, Tracking or the Bypass mode.

It is a strange thing, because you can activate the delay compensation in the VST Plug-In as well, but I can not
recognize any difference if I activate/enable in the Nectar Delay Compensation or not.

I have double checked it now.

Also just as a hint: you can check the additional latency in the Plug-In information in Cubase. Bypass will NOT touch the additional latency, only removing the Plug-In will remove the additional latency.

*edit*
If I use the VST 3 version of the Izotope Nectar, the Delay Compensation works as it should do on my System.

Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

Mikael
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Hello Marcus,

I appreciate your input. If you are interested, we can discuss Nectar elsewhere, because clearly somethig is funny for you with it.
However, it would like to keep this thread focussed on my issue, which is clearly independent of any plugins, since the problem persists as described even with all plugins removed from projects.

I am a bit afraid that the thread might be regarded as "solved" by viewers after your comments which have quite some weight, coming from TechSupport. For me the issue is not solved at all.

I appreciate further input on the issue.

regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Hi Mikael,

maybe we misunderstood each other, but I am taking this still serious.

I did not want to blame the Nectar or its behaviour. I am in contact with Izotope guys at the moment (I have met the developers 2 years ago in Göttingen/ Germany and they are creating really good Plug-ins).
I found something very interesting after you pointed me to it with your post, because
there seems to be an issue indeed with the Nectar VST 2 and the Nectar Delay Compensation.
I do not think this is funny or did I miss something somewhere or somehow?
I do not know if this is or was related to your configuration.

But if you can exclude this right now, we will have to investigate your system and configuration.

So maybe you can pm me and we will make a remote session and let's see if we can find something bizarre.

Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Strophoid » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:15 am

Something being or acting funny means it doesn't work as expected, not that it's funny ;)
Software: Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 64-bit.
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Marcus
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Re: Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Marcus » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:55 am

Hi Strophoid,


ok.....you are right.....I missed that not expecting, working and behaving could be funny....
:)
Point for you.....and for my wife...she always does not the expected...
So she has to be funny as well.... :shock:


Ok getting back to the issue.....

Mikael, please PM me and we will arrange a remote session.


Cheers,

Marcus
BDM Education
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!

My Desktop PC: Intel i7 950; Gigabyte GA 58x UD5, 12GB RAM, NVidia Geforce 770
OS: Win 8 64bit

My Laptop:
Lenovo T540p,Intel i7 4700MQ, 16GB Ram, 750GB Samsung SSD, NVidia Geforce 730M
OS: Win 8.1 Pro 64bit

Mikael
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[Solved] Serious rme + Cubase 6 ASIO issue

Post by Mikael » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:29 pm

Marcus,

just to let you know: the originally reported issue finally has been solved by the latest rme driver update to version 3.35. I am relieved.

Regards, Mikael
SW: C 9.5.0 /64 & Wavelab 9 on W10/64
DAW 1: DA-X Extreme Haswell-E Xeon E5-2680V3 12-core workstation
DAW 2: Dell Precision T5500 2 x Xeon X5690 12-core workstation
Audio: 4 x rme HDSPe / Multiface II, 3 x Octamic II, 1 x rme Fireface UC
Surface: 3 x Avid MC Mix, 1 x MC Transport
Plugins: Audioease, Lexicon, Neve Portico, Yamaha Vintage, SlateDigital, Izotope, Pianoteq etc.

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