[Bug w/ Video Demo] Phasing problem with StereoDelay

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
Post Reply
ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

[Bug w/ Video Demo] Phasing problem with StereoDelay

Post by ilmolto » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:19 am

This is weird. I have a Crash Cymbal which is being fed into the Stereo Delay as an insert. The Crash is mono. My settings in the Stereo Delay are 1/4 fully left and 1/4 Dotted fully right. When I listen to the mix in mono by clicking the mono button in the Control Room, I get phasing when the two sides clash. This shouldn't be, should it? I then tried putting the Stereo Delay so both sides are the same delay length (1/4) and there was no phasing. I then tried Waves SuperTap, recreated that Stereo Delay effect and did not get phasing. So does this mean that the Stereo Delay isn't 100% accurate? Here's a video to further demonstrate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pk5gl261-s
Last edited by ilmolto on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Split
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5285
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by Split » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:40 am

Is the stereo delay inserted on a mono channel?
??????Split
Cubase 10|MOTU 16A
Still at it... just!

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:00 am

No, it's on a stereo channel. When listening in stereo it sounds fine as you would expect, but when you switch to mono via the Control Room, there is phasing. I'm thinking it's the Stereo Delay not being 100% accurate. It's like the 1/4 Dotted delay is slightly drifting from the 1/4 delay. Not sure if I'm making sense here. Maybe I shoul make a video.

User avatar
Split
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5285
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by Split » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:06 am

I understand what you are saying... weird!

You know about the small problem with the mono summing in the control room?

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... ng#p141723

Not, I would have thought, that would cause what you're describing though.
??????Split
Cubase 10|MOTU 16A
Still at it... just!

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 am

I don't think it's that because I tested the same thing with Waves SuperTap without phasing issues. I also did a test in Stereo Delay by setting the left side to 1/4 delay and the right side the same. No issues. It must be the relation between the 1/4 and 1/4 Dotted delay that's causing the phasing. If I find anything else out I'll let you know. Thanks for your help.

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:54 pm

I uploaded a video so you can better understand what I'm talking about. Don't put it up too loud because my voice is low compared to the audio coming from Cubase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pk5gl26 ... e=youtu.be

Maybe someone can try the same thing and see if they get phasing as well.

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:17 am

Any chance someone can try this to see if they get the same thing?

1. Start a new project
2. Create a stereo audio track
3. Import a mono audio file onto that stereo audio track
4. Add a Stereo Delay as an insert and make the left side at 1/4 note and the right side at 1/4 Dotted
5. Play it back in mono to see if phasing occurs when the two sides play at the same time

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by thinkingcap » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:03 am

Turn the feedback to 0..!?
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:34 am

If I wanted to have only 1 single left and 1 single right delay, I would put the feedback to 0. But I don't. All I want is to have exactly as I have now, without a phasing problem when in mono. I have resorted to using milliseconds, and tweaking the delay times so they don't phase as much. I've put the left 1 ms longer and the right 1 ms shorter. It helps, but the phasing is still there.

User avatar
Split
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5285
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:06 pm
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by Split » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:13 am

Have you tried it without the EQ switched in on the FB?
??????Split
Cubase 10|MOTU 16A
Still at it... just!

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:26 am

Yeah, it doesn't make a difference. The only thing it can be is the left and right signals aren't aligned perfectly, so when they get summed to mono, phasing occurs.

User avatar
Split
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5285
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:06 pm
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by Split » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:29 am

That's what it sounds like!

You could, if you can be bothered, use a sine wave and have a look at the result.
??????Split
Cubase 10|MOTU 16A
Still at it... just!

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:33 am

Yeah I might try that. I'll let you know how it goes.

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:31 am

I can 100% confirm that it is an issue with StereoDelay. I tested it with a raw sine wave that I recorded from NI Massive. This was the result:

http://cl.ly/image/1m2r2P3n0325

I then did the same thing with the crash cymbal I used in the video and aligned the left and right perfectly and there was no phasing. I had to nudge the right side 3 samples at first, but it then became 6 samples and so on. So, how do I report this to Steinberg? Should I just edit the post title as Bug or do I need to go to the Steinberg website? I think maybe I should get someone else to do the same test before I start calling it a bug. So could someone please help me out here?

thinkingcap
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 6459
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by thinkingcap » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 pm

Read the sticky on top of the forum...
Cubase 5.1.1 (32bit) | Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 | RME Fireface UFX | RME Fireface 800 | Cubase Essential 5 | Win 7 Home Premium x64
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just took off my thinkingcap, it got filled up with too much crap...

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Video] Got a phasing problem with Stereo Delay

Post by ilmolto » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:05 pm

Hi thinkingcap,

I read that and that is why I'd like someone to test it first before posting a title with the word bug in it.

ilmolto
Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:05 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: [Bug w/ Video Demo] Phasing problem with StereoDelay

Post by ilmolto » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:05 am

Since no one wants to take 3 minutes of their time to see if they get the same phasing issue as me, I am declaring this as a bug. So to the moderators, the StereoDelay plugin can cause a phasing issue when listening in mono. Here's how to reproduce it:

1. Start a new project
2. Create a stereo audio track
3. Import a mono audio file onto that stereo audio track
4. Add a StereoDelay as an insert and make the left side at 1/4 note and the right side at 1/4 Dotted
5. Use the Control Room to play it back in mono to see if phasing occurs when the two sides play at the same time. If you don't use the Control Room, just pan both of the StereoDelay sides to the centre and it should give you the same results.

I have done several tests with it and it seems that the 1/4 note drifts from the 1/4 Dotted note several samples over time. So please have this fixed as I like to use the StereoDelay for that true stereo effect.

Post Reply

Return to “Older Cubase versions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests