score editing .. no easy examples in manual

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janamdo
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score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

That is really poor documented the score editor..no easy example with rests to get a idea how it exactly works
I really don't have a idea to enter notes and rests in Cubase..unbelievable for this program
Perhaps in the included tutorial ??..no nothing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I set for the display quantisize 1/16 for note and rest value--> there is 1/16 note in the 8 bar piano piece, but for the rest value there are only 2 x 1/4 rests..so i must chance the rest value ( dispaly quantisize ) to 1/4 i think
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first measure in a 4/4 treble clef
- the first and second beat (count?) is a rest
- the third beat is quarter rest
-the fourth beat are 2 tied .. 1/8 notes

How simple can it be?
Last edited by janamdo on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arjan P
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Arjan P »

There is a roughly 150 pages section on it in the manual. Not exactly poorly documented..
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janamdo
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Arjan P wrote:There is a roughly 150 pages section on it in the manual. Not exactly poorly documented..
Well i you read my post it write something about a practical example to get a idea how it works
All functions from a developer view are good documented as i can see it

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Conman »

Remember that chapter on Score is accompanird by "and Printing". It's really only a score printing facility with basic symbol editing. Previous posters have tried to edit / compose directly into it and ran into trouble. It's certainly not Sibelius etc.
The manual is not much changed from about 15 years back and although it doesn't say outright it does imply in places that preparatory editing is best done in the other editors.
Not all people have trouble with it but just be aware that it's not exactly wearng the right clothes.
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Thanks!
Well i don't like the idea to use Sibilius or Finale in combination with Cubase 6
I like to work complete in Cubase 6 itself and it seems to me a fantastic program Cubase, but i hope that the score composing is possible, but from your post i can read not
There is not a easy input with notes and rests possible like in Finale/Sibilius/Notion.... it has propably to do that it is connected with a key editor ?
I can remember that note entry for composing also in some oher DAWS gives problems
So .. it is the case that the note entry must go in the keyeditor?
(note: if i read that een proffessional score parts were prepared from a sequencer's notational capabilities in Logic
than ..how about Cubase?)

Conclusion : it seems that the key editor the place is for note entry than? and that the score is correction tool for scores made in dedicated score editors like finale/sibilus/notion ..
Last edited by janamdo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Bacizone »

+1 for a refreshed, simplified and more effective new Score Editor in Cubase!

This is vital for many composers with classical music background...

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Bacizone wrote:+1 for a refreshed, simplified and more effective new Score Editor in Cubase!

This is vital for many composers with classical music background...
Yes +1
I thought do want to use the scoreeditor for classical composing too, but it seems not the case :cry:
The scoreeditor has not improved for the expressionmap features to use classical instruments in Cubase

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Still going on to try to compose in the scoreeditor, because the midi used notes are basic stuff..so i think Cubase can handle this ..IF i set the right options for the note lenghts and rest lenghts and quantisizing.
I must make a 9 bar long midi piece with only 1/4 rests and as highste resolution 1/16 note
So it is the case to make the right options!
Double clicking inthe score editor on the stave selector gives a options menu
- display quantize for notes =1/15 and for rests = 1/4
- interpretation options all off
- when i try to bring th e note higher..it gives a flat sign before the note----> i am in C major..no sharps or flats there--->" Keep moved Notes within Key" option is that very handy ( file-preference-scores-editing --> Keep notes.)

The first bar input is working !..the second bar gives a flat sign for a moved note( so i correct this with ea new option )
i let you know if it works out well !
http://www.zerospec.com/testmap/midiorchestration.jpg
Last edited by janamdo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:57 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Arjan P
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Arjan P »

janamdo wrote:
Arjan P wrote:There is a roughly 150 pages section on it in the manual. Not exactly poorly documented..
Well i you read my post it write something about a practical example to get a idea how it works
I replied to the post before it got edited.. Good luck anyway.
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Yes you are right that it is well documented the score editor and from this i must try to apply this in practical score
I need some luck ;)

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Well i tried to work with the score editor for composing in Cubase, but the program is interpretating the input notes and don't show the notes i intended.
I do have enough of it :(
I stop with this and" good luck" for doing score composing is not what i want.
I do need a easy input of notes and not make al kinds of options and other things to keep in mind.
So the expression map and score don't work together ideal ..i cannot easily bring in notes in the score editor
Well for my is this crap the scoreeditor in Cubase and outdated and useless for composing.
It is really time to design a scoreeditor what accepts my input.

The only thing what left is to use the keyeditor and a external scoreeditor
Steinberg you are missing here something !

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

It is possible to write music in the score editor.

If you post the file you are trying this in it would be easier to help you.
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Puma0382 »

You could try before you buy:-
http://www.sionsoft.com/qse2lit.html

Designed for score composition/sequencing, it says...

HTH,
Bob
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janamdo
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

SteveInChicago wrote:It is possible to write music in the score editor.

If you post the file you are trying this in it would be easier to help you.
Thanks!
I really hope that i can a easy noteinput, but after my complaining ..i went further
see example http://www.zerospec.com/testmap/midiorchestration.jpg ( url in post above )

I was stucked here with the first tied 2 notes in bar 1 and 2 , but i find a solution by cutting both notes and glue them again...--> now i got a tied( slur?) symbol in the score editor !!!

What are the settings for note entry besides the notelenght and quantisize ?
To give a tutorial for this short midi melody, because note entry must be doen on the right place ( so you must look at notepostion within the measure ( look at rests position)
This precise note entry is not the case with the dedicated scoreeditors like Sibilius , etc

So look at the example of the piano melody...

Note: it seems that the documentation about the score editor in my version of Cubase is not the same as the scoreeditor in Cubase..so i must thave a updated manual
Last edited by janamdo on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

I thought there is also a free open source score editor with quality ..
Yes this one http://musescore.org/
Last edited by janamdo on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

I meant the Cubase file.
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by Conman »

It's not impossible to write scores but just be aware that although it's been developed as a printing tool it has become more usable for composing and it is true that, aside from the manual, it's not exactly clear that that's the case. Although I can see, as it has considerable orchestral scoring talents, how one gets the idea that you can use that editor as the main scoring page.

If you do persevere then you could try it with a good luck at the settings (of which there are many) as it is probably set up for the composer who inputs music via keyboard and then tweaks the score and then there are also Score settings in the general Preferences. Steve or Vic France will probably be more help on the more obscure points there.

Score is also interactive with the other editors in that to get the right instrument display on the stave that is done by moving the instrument tracks around on the Project page and much tidying up is done by removing notes (particularly on unquantised arpeggios) leaving just the first and last and inserting a symbol. Quantising is also used for tidying up the Score so as you see the score is largely dependent on other elements of the program for better legibility after music has been, by inference, played in.
I'm sure I've seen a flowchart somewhere of the relationship between the editors. Could be in the manual or could have been an article but I can't recall just now.
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janamdo
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Here is my Cubase projectfile with 4 instruments
As you can see the score shows the 2 violins and in score violin 2 i managed to get the 2 notes tied..see score
You can add a 3 third score with the Cello where you can show your note input.

But the idea ia that i can learn from you, and it revolves not on these particular melody fragment
http://www.zerospec.com/testmap/expressiemap_sounds.cpr

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

Ties are produced when the note value can't be written otherwise. Like over a barline, or some syncopations.

So the length of the note determines how it looks in score edit. I don't quite understand if you want the notes tied or not, looks like you do. They are tied simply because the tied notes are one event.

Regardless, in order to use cubase in this way you will have to understand how midi events are handled.

If you have a specific question let me know.

Also, for the type of work you are doing here, I suggest you use midi tracks rather than instrument tracks, this use much less computer resources.

Hit F11 and add Halion Sonic SE.

Here is a file with some added notes to illustrate what I said above, and setup with one instance of Halion Sonic SE

Hope it helps!

Steve
Attachments

[The extension cpr has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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janamdo
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

SteveInChicago wrote:Ties are produced when the note value can't be written otherwise. Like over a barline, or some syncopations.
Thanks Steve!

That is not always the case..see my projectfile...for measure 2 for the violin 1 and violin 2
Violin 1 has no tie and violin 2 has a tie
There is a note of 3 counts and than compound note for 1/4 ( one 1/8 + two 1/16 note)
These notes in bar 2 are not syncopated ..they are falling on the 4 beats

If you studied the score editor for the 2 violins( violin 1 and violin 2 ) .. than for violin 2 i added a tie!! ( violin 1 has not a tie yet )
HOW I DID THAT ...i cut both tie notes and after this a glued them ..and the tie symbol came up by Cubase!

I hope you understand it now ..and perhaps is this a general aproach?..cut and glue to get a tie ?
I do want make the same melody example in Cubase ( you have seen the example on the forum? )

I study further your example!

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

In your file the violin 1 part has two events for the notes in question, Violin two has one. That's why. Cut cuts, glue glues, there is no magic or weirdness.
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janamdo
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Thanks for your example and advice about using no instrumenttracks
I don't understand what you mean here, but i enclosed a pic to get it clear
http://www.zerospec.com/testmap/tievoorbeeld.jpg
Last edited by janamdo on Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

look at measure 3 in the key editor.

(edit) be sure you compare the tied and non tied notes in the key editor so you can see the difference. Forget about what you said about cutting/gluing. That is erroneous.
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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by janamdo »

Were to find?..
Last edited by janamdo on Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: score editing .. no easy examples in manual

Post by -steve- »

I am saying to look in the file you posted.

Look in the key editor and compare the violin parts. They are not the same.

I'm signing off now. Please read the documentation.
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