Padshop, no uploading samples??

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Wolf-Ray
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Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:36 am

The manual for Padshop says, "It [Padshop] features two completely independent layers that each use a set of PRECONFIGUERD samples as grain oscillator sources."

What!?

As in I can't upload a sample into Padshop...

WTF kind of a granular synthesizer is this? Makes it no better than Native Instruments Skanner which was released for free back in December.

Update this, let it take samples. Camel Audio's Alchemy lets you do real granular synthesis with your own samples. Take a note from them.

So thanks but no thanks, what a waste of $50 bucks.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by thinkingcap » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:48 am

And here would have been the correct forum to post this... :roll:
Even with a post about the same topic already...
http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68&t=19906
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Shinta215 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:51 am

thinkingcap wrote:And here would have been the correct forum to post this... :roll:
Even with a post about the same topic already...
http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68&t=19906
Indeed. Pre-purchase research is usually a good thing...

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:30 am

Advertising a Granular synthesizer and not mentioning it can't upload samples is like advertising a VA and not mentioning it lacks filters. :roll:

And thats just it. Steinberg never mentions that it has preconfigured (non-upload) samples anywhere. The manual is the first time I've come across that. So *knuf* your pre-purchase research, I read every word of advertising before buying the new update.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:40 am

"And if that’s not enough, start from scratch: the included SoftGrain Wave ROM is full of beautiful and original samples to fuel the grain oscillators."

Very misleading. They really needed to mention that you cannot upload samples.

Anyone who is even remotely interested in Padshop should really look into Skanner. Skanner is beautifully innovative, its like "scrub synthesis". It uses real samples and beats the pants off of Padshop in every way. Hats off to Native Instruments.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by johngar » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:03 am

Wolf-Ray wrote:They really needed to mention that you cannot upload samples.
Do you really think they would list everything their product can't do?
The description is not misleading at all, and there are plenty of topics in the forum to clear up the question you had.
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Shinta215 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:04 am

Wolf-Ray wrote:I read every word of advertising before buying the new update.
And yet, the inability to load samples was confirmed before launch (in the publicly accessible forums).

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Sir Dancelot » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:05 am

yawn...
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Shinta215 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:14 am

Sir Dancelot wrote:yawn...
I know. There's so many people complaining because they didn't do their research.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:20 am

johngar wrote: Do you really think they would list everything their product can't do?
The description is not misleading at all, and there are plenty of topics in the forum to clear up the question you had.
Good point about them listing things it cannot do, that would obviously be ridiculous. My point is that granular synthesis, being based off sampling, implies the ability to import samples. True, I should've explicitly hunted for a Steiny qote saying, "user defined samples" or "import .wav" etc and without seeing such could've hopped on the forum to ask for clarification. But to say the description "isn't misleading at all" is ridiculous. Lets drop the discussion because you're gonna be a fanboy and im still going to be *quiz* about losing 50 dollars.

And tell me Shinta, do you hop on the manufacturers website and check their forum before purchasing a synth? speakers? software? Stop being an ass.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Shinta215 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:32 am

Wolf-Ray wrote:And tell me Shinta, do you hop on the manufacturers website and check their forum before purchasing a synth? speakers? software? Stop being an ass.
Yes, actually I do.

And please, I am a human. Not a donkey.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Elektrobolt » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:41 am

Wolf-Ray wrote:And tell me Shinta, do you hop on the manufacturers website and check their forum before purchasing a synth? speaekers? software? Stop being an ass.
And what do you call a person, that do not research what's available before buying a synth, speakers or software, then mopes around, whining and crying, that it wasn't what they expected?
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:45 am

Update the synth Steiny, it could be a beast.

The only reply on here at this point should be about how to get a refund.

/thread

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Sir Dancelot » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:46 am

It says:

SoftGrain Wave ROM with hundreds of sounds for custom presets

That is read only memory.Should ring a bell. At least with me. When I saw that I wanted to know about laoding up your own samples. Took me 3 minutes to figure out it couldn't be done.

Every other granular synth I've seen are advertising that they can load up other samples.

So take your loss, you didn't take a good look. $hit happens, lesson learned, but don't blame it on others.

That said, in the end Padshop is part of C6.5 I presume you wanted to upgrade your DAW aswell, or did you just wanted the synth?
Because it's part of an upgrade that also has another synth, two effects and a stack of other stuff. That is a whole lot for 50 euro's. Can't expect a decent synth for that anyway :)

Greetz Dylan.
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:10 am

Sir Dancelot wrote:It says:

SoftGrain Wave ROM with hundreds of sounds for custom presets

That is read only memory.Should ring a bell. At least with me. When I saw that I wanted to know about laoding up your own samples. Took me 3 minutes to figure out it couldn't be done.

Every other granular synth I've seen are advertising that they can load up other samples.

So take your loss, you didn't take a good look. $hit happens, lesson learned, but don't blame it on others.

That said, in the end Padshop is part of C6.5 I presume you wanted to upgrade your DAW aswell, or did you just wanted the synth?
Because it's part of an upgrade that also has another synth, two effects and a stack of other stuff. That is a whole lot for 50 euro's. Can't expect a decent synth for that anyway :)

Greetz Dylan.
I certainly made the mistake of not reading the fine print (or lack thereof). I'm not blaming the peeps on here for anything, but am clearly frustrated with the fanboy attitudes. That, on top of lost funds is annoying. Empathy goes a lot further than "you shoulda done dis dumb-dumb" kind of bullsh!t.

Got the full update, but only as a side to the synth because I LOVE granular synthesis after exploring it in Alchemy. Been looking out for something beyond a simple grainshifter effect and bam, Steinberg announced Padshop. I had thought the name was a bit funny but I guess it makes sense now. Its just a workbench tool meant for a specific purpose, instead of a full fledged programmable monster.

I had asked for a VST 3.5 synth in the past so it turns out Retrologue is the most exciting thing about this update. I'll be exploring the ins and out of that engine tonight so yeah, theres something to look forward to.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Sir Dancelot » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:24 am

the thing is, if you would be more gentle in your post, the "fanboys" ( I am one of them)would react accordingly.
It makes perfect sence when someone start a graphical rant towards a product the opposite will rise against.

It's not personal, not from either side, it's just a reaction.

I also had times I wanted to bash all over this forum because of things not working in my set-up.
But it's just not a good idea to make your emotions public. Well it's a good idea if you want to suffer the consequences :D

Anyway, maybe Steinberg comes up with an idea in the future.

Greetz Dylan.
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Shinta215 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:27 am

Sir Dancelot wrote: "fanboys"
Wolf-Ray wrote:fanboy attitudes
Judging from the other posts in this thread, there are no fanboys.

We were just commenting on how advertising (the whole world over) works.

Still a human.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Wolf-Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:04 am

Sir Dancelot wrote:it's just not a good idea to make your emotions public.
Hah honestly kept saying that to myself after each post in this thread. Let emotions get the better of me for sure.

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Guest » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:59 am

I, like most people who paid for the 6.5 upgrade, probably did it mostly for Padshop (I'm guessing). For $50 I think Padshop sounds pretty decent, as I originally wasn't expecting that much to begin with. I've been listening to every patch in alphabetical order this evening and am only up to the E's so far, but I've found some pretty interesting and pleasing patches that I'm sure I will be using in the future. I read on this very forum that Padshop would not import samples, but that didn't bother me since I am a proud owner of Alchemy. Anyway, Padshop and all the other stuff was worth the $50 for me.....and if that makes me also a "fanboy", so be it. ;)

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Joan Cubaez » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:46 am

Wolf-Ray wrote: WTF kind of a granular synthesizer is this? Makes it no better than Native Instruments Skanner which was released for free back in December.
Dude, you oughta be fair! Native Instruments' Skanner allows you to use your own samples! :twisted:
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by roger-s. » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:57 am

Wolf-Ray wrote:The manual for Padshop says, "
Update this, let it take samples. Camel Audio's Alchemy lets you do real granular synthesis with your own samples. Take a note from them.

So thanks but no thanks, what a waste of $50 bucks.
Well, Alchemy costs 5 times the price of what Padshop does (and yes, I have Alchemy).
All the best

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Whirly » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:05 pm

My initial reaction was disappointment over the lack ability to load your own samples. However, after playing with Padshop for one evening I can’t imagine running out of options with the built-in samples. In fact, I’m actually happy that the selection is limited to what’s “inside” of Padshop instead doing endless search on the HD for The Perfect Sample, or for the nth time sampling the “ping” from a wineglass, etc.

If I need to load my own samples in a grain synth I’ll use Skanner or one of the many other grain synths in Reaktor, or I’ll use Granulator (MaxforLive device), which I also find absolutely brilliant.

Padshop surprised me in a good way and so far I’m totally happy with it as it is.
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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Reiknir » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:42 pm

roger-s. wrote:
Wolf-Ray wrote:The manual for Padshop says, "
Update this, let it take samples. Camel Audio's Alchemy lets you do real granular synthesis with your own samples. Take a note from them.

So thanks but no thanks, what a waste of $50 bucks.
Well, Alchemy costs 5 times the price of what Padshop does (and yes, I have Alchemy).
All the best

Roger
Uh, Alchemy is not a granular synth .... mine is not at the least, is granular becoming a buzzword rather than an architectural description ?

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Reiknir » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:32 pm

Wolf-Ray wrote:Advertising a Granular synthesizer and not mentioning it can't upload samples is like advertising a VA and not mentioning it lacks filters. :roll:
There are VA's that do not have filters, a filter at the end of the chain is not a defining feature of analogue synthesisers but merely of the "German strand" of analogue synths, e.g. Trautonium>Bode>Moog, there are even variants of that strand such as versions of Buchla and the good old Davioli that did not come with filters at all.

Furthermore, granular synthesis pre-dates sampling so saying that it MUST have user sample facility is a bit odd, the reason some sample based synths do not have user sample option is that the "samples" are not samples at all but rather processed data, Steinberg Plex for instance was based on samples but heavily processed and the skill set to make usable hand tuned Plex data out of a raw sample simply does not exist out there so Wolfgang Palm never even considered releasing the toolset required for user samples.

Even in synths with simpler processing requirements the data may be based on samples but not be a sample per se but for instance resonance data only, having this allows the synth designer to make an "resonance oscillator" that has a specific function and features different from the standard but at the same time also makes difficult to develop end user sample manipulation tools that do not require some understanding of basic acoustic theory.

In any event, going mental on a forum about a synth on the day of its release is extremely narrow minded, download it, try it for a few days, explore the nooks and crannies of its corners and then come back and complain, attacking the makers of tools you have no or limited experience with is not helpful to anyone

And stop calling other people on the forum Asses and Fanboys, these are after all the people you are going to have to ask for help at some point in the future, they are not likely to respond to your queries if they have already placed you in their "twatfilter"

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Re: Padshop, no uploading samples??

Post by Elektrobolt » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Wolf-Ray wrote:My point is that granular synthesis, being based off sampling, implies the ability to import samples.
Though based on the principal of sampling, Granular Synthesis is not implicitly based on "samples".
(As in stored sampled sounds, that is.)

A sampler consist of sampling, storage and playback from storage. It uses sampling to record audio levels at some frequency, stores the result as a stream of samples and can then replicate what it "heard" by playing the stream of samples back out. The samples of a stream COULD be called grains to show the similarity in thinking.

A GS based synthesizer generates sound by playing grains. The grains COULD be the samples of the stream above, or even lengthier extracts from the stream (which is how Padshop does it). However, the grains could also be waveforms generated from other sources, for example in realtime. Such a version could be looked at as a two part engine, one that generate grains (somewhat like generated oscillators in "traditional" synthesizers), and another that fuses them and plays them like a new sound.

Though Padshop uses samples to generate its grains, it could potentially be modified with a grain generator (like morphable oscillator type waveforms) to yield seemingly indefinite sonic possibilities. I am not an expert on GS, in any way, but I can see that as a future possibility. It would be cool to be able to use your own samples, sure, but having access to a grain generator that you can manipulate in realtime, just like the GS engine itself, would yield an even cooler result, I think. :)

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