Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

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Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

I have these three - Sonnox De-Clicker, De-noise and De-Buzzer - which I can't remember buying as third party plugs. I'm certain I've used them occasionally.

Were they/are they included with Nuendo?

I tried to load the de-buzzer today and got a an E-Licenser error (which crashed Nuendo). Which makes me think that they must have been included at some point (I've been with Nuendo since v1) The official Sonnox plugins use I-lok, not E-Licenser

Anyone?
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

No, these plug-ins are not included in Nuendo. In the past, they were included in WaveLab.

They are not (and were not) protected by e-Licenser. As far as I know, they are using iLok. How exactly is the error message, please?
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Ah yes, thanks Martin, that makes sense, I have Wavelab Elements.

I'm attaching a screenshot of the error message
Sonnox ELc error.jpeg
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Sonnox licences don't appear in either my eLc or iLok lists.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Just worked it out- I didn't have the Wavelab Elements license on my eLc, it appears Sonnox needs this when opening in Nuendo.

Thanks for your help Martin.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Oliver.Lucas »

Unfortunately the new stuff that replaces the Sonnox light versions of the restoration plugins sound terrible to my ears.
The Sonnox stuff sounded much better. DeBuzz is really good, better than RX.

It is only a matter of time until some OS update will kill the WaveLab Sonnox plugs (at least for macOS users... :roll: )

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by stingray »

As an alternative, try Acon Digital's restoration plugins.

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Oliver.Lucas »

stingray wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:13 pm
As an alternative, try Acon Digital's restoration plugins.
Yes, agreed.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - and a question about noisy guitars

Post by ffg »

Here’s a question I’m trying to find an answer to, maybe the combined expertise of the Nuendo forum can help...

I’m chasing down a low level buzz in the studio, which appears to a greater or lesser extent on any and all electric guitars, single coil or humbucker, from cheapo to exotic. The more compressed and the higher the gain, obviously the worse it is.

I THINK I’ve done all the usual checks to track the source and find a fix, tell me what you think:

It’s a buzz, not a hum, sounds like thyristor buzz. It’s the same on amps, and DI.

It’s louder when the guitar is attached to a human, but can be largely silenced by touching the guitar metalwork or strings. It’s as if the human is acting like an antenna.

The studio is a detached building, and the noise is there even if the mains to the building is isolated, and power is brought with an extension cable from an adjacent building.

This leads me to suspect that the mains supply itself is inherently noisy. Earth (ground) for the mains comes with the supply. Supply for both buildings comes from a nearby overhead cable and step down transformer.

This is UK by the way.

Anyone got any ideas?
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - and a question about noisy guitars

Post by JDSStudios »

ffg wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:48 am
Here’s a question I’m trying to find an answer to, maybe the combined expertise of the Nuendo forum can help...

I’m chasing down a low level buzz in the studio, which appears to a greater or lesser extent on any and all electric guitars, single coil or humbucker, from cheapo to exotic. The more compressed and the higher the gain, obviously the worse it is.

I THINK I’ve done all the usual checks to track the source and find a fix, tell me what you think:

It’s a buzz, not a hum, sounds like thyristor buzz. It’s the same on amps, and DI.

It’s louder when the guitar is attached to a human, but can be largely silenced by touching the guitar metalwork or strings. It’s as if the human is acting like an antenna.

The studio is a detached building, and the noise is there even if the mains to the building is isolated, and power is brought with an extension cable from an adjacent building.

This leads me to suspect that the mains supply itself is inherently noisy. Earth (ground) for the mains comes with the supply. Supply for both buildings comes from a nearby overhead cable and step down transformer.

This is UK by the way.

Anyone got any ideas?
To make sure it is a ground problem, measure with multi-meter between the grounds of the AC plugs. It should be zero Volts.
If you see any voltage, try to plug the computer and equipment in the same plug, with a power bar. Hopefully it will drain less than 15 Amps,
and it should be the quietest you can get, in terms of ground loops, because this way there won't be any.

When you say it gets quieter when a human touches the guitar metalwork or strings, it's definitely a ground problem.

EDIT: Also, ask the guitar player to rotate slowly 360 degrees; at a certain angle it will be quieter.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Many thanks for the suggestions.

I actually don’t think it’s a ground LOOP as such, because the noise is there even when the studio (in fact the whole studio building) is turned off, and I run the amp off an extension cable from a neighbouring building.

I wonder if there’s a way to check the actual mains supply for noise? This isn’t an area I have much knowledge about...
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Big K »

What you need for seeing Mains noise is an oscilloscope. There you spot any dirt in the mains visually.
Alternatively, you can try a mains filter device. Then you hear right away if it is a mains pollution from outside.
Those come in various builds depending on the Power you need. For testing just lend a small one...
It is just a relatively simple circuitry, mainly of coils and capacitors.
If it is not coming through mains it could be radiated from nasty machinery or transformers, in the vicinity.
Then that would be a real problem... Not likely, though.

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Thanks for this Big K, I was thinking about getting the mains waveform checked.

There are some ‘mains conditioning’ devices on the market. I already tried one from Studiospares
https://www.studiospares.com/ProductDet ... x?p=517330

which has no noticeable benefit.

Furman make a couple of different units, there isn’t much detail of what they do, but it seems more focused on spikes than on ac ripple.

We do have stepdown transformer close by (about 15 metres from the end of the building) so I’m going to contact the grid distributor for information.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by JDSStudios »

ffg wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:10 am
Many thanks for the suggestions.

I actually don’t think it’s a ground LOOP as such, because the noise is there even when the studio (in fact the whole studio building) is turned off, and I run the amp off an extension cable from a neighbouring building.

I wonder if there’s a way to check the actual mains supply for noise? This isn’t an area I have much knowledge about...
Yes understood, but you said it got quieter when you touched the strings, so
even if not a looped ground, still a ground issue.

That power bar you posted only reduces Radio Frequency interference (RF),
so not applicable.
Have you tried a mic, or any other equipment besides the guitar? And also, is the same guitar
system quiet everywhere else? That will help locate the problem.
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Thanks, there's no issue with audio equipment generally in the studio, but then that all employs balanced interconnection.

I did some research into Furman devices, and spoke to the UK distributor - they are certainly claiming effective mains-borne noise control, I've ordered a Furman M-10x E, we'll see if that helps...
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Big K »

Thinking about it...
When planning the studio construction the first thing we did was making mains ground wire conns all in a star shaped manner. Quite usually those are often laid out in serial from one socket to the next. This introduces a difference in electrical potential causing hum. Some devices with asymmetrical layout don't like this a bit.
Also, have mains ground of the house checked. If it is not zero Ohms towards the mains entry box to the house... problem...
We also build several mains circuits with fuses and residual current operated circuit breakers. Meaning, the control room with console, computer, rack devices, pre-amps, a.s.f., are on independent mains circuits and so is the recording room. The rest, like lights, gadgets outside the studio environment, aircon., vents, office stuff are on separate lines, too. In total we have 8 circuits with special star shaped grounding of all audio relevant rooms. On the backside of the racks we have a separate earthing cable, 16 Sqmm , connected to a Rackpotenzialausgleichschiene ??, where all cases and housings are connected to, as well.
Problems with noise and hum on stage or elsewhere is occasionally fixed with simply turning the mains plug. I am sooo grateful for those new light dimmers and LED lamps.. ;-) Was a pain da bum in earlier years...
Ground Lines.jpg
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by vinark »

Afaik guitar pick op noise is usually electromagnetic radiation. So it is coming through space (not from space of course 😜) not wires.
Any power transformer sends out this radiation. Crt monitors even more.

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Our control room uses a star ground system. We don't have any ground loop problems in the studio, but there is always a low level buzz from guitar pickups - even when the studio is switched off - unfortunately with high gain preamp/amp setups and compression this buzz gets to be a problem.

If it was EM radiation, I would expect it to be particular to certain locations in the building and directional, but it isn't, it's everywhere, including outside the building. For years I've lived with it by careful gating/filtering, but I really want to see if it can be eradicated.

The ground for the mains supply in UK (AIUI) takes place at the base of the supply pole - a fat copper wire buried at least 1 metre in the earth. I will be checking if there is any electrical resistance between the mains ground in the building

Thanks for the suggestions
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Lars Wegas »

Hi
is an electrical railway line or large electrical lines nearby? We have 2 railway lines 30 meters away.
This creates massive interference in guitars / basses and can only be reduced with an electromagnetic field compensation system.
I think we are the only recording studio in the world that has one. The technique is used in electron microscopy and is very expensive. The principle is the phase cancellation in all axes (x, y and z axis). The components are: central unit, 3 sensors and cable rings in the walls, floors and ceilings of the room for the recordings. The cable rings are switched as a coil and the central device generates an opposing field in real time.
A space without a magnetic field is created within the cable rings.

Please excuse the English ... I only speak German
Maybe it helps
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

That’s interesting, thanks for posting. Our mains electricity comes from an overhead pole located about 15m from the studio building, I believe it’s at 7200v and there’s a distribution transformer on the pole supplying our house and studio (2 separate buildings).

There is a railway line about 100m away but it’s not an electrified line.

I do suspect the interference on pickups may be related to the proximity of the transformer, but it’s HF buzz, not a 50hz hum, and moving the guitar around doesn’t affect the interference.

I now have the Furman power conditioner, we’ll see if that helps.
best wishes

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Lars Wegas »

Hi,
the transformer or the cable is the problem because they both generate a magnetic field. (the cable is probably the big problem) The frequency of the railroad is 16.5Hz in Germany. What we hear here as a disturbance are the overtones and their distortions (approx 600hz-5000khz ... it is a whir). These disturbances are omnidirectional and no material can stop them, at most bend a little. (except µ-Metal in many thick layers ..... very expensive) The only solution is distance (approx. 80-100meters) or a magnetic field canceling system. Your cable is basically like our railway line. You can check this with a guitaramp with battery ..... and then walk away from the generator/cable and hear what happens.
Good luck
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by JDSStudios »

ffg David let me guess before you post:

The Furman did not fix the problem.

:)
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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Yep, you're right on.

Drat.

Getting the distinct feeling there isn't a solution to this one.

It's noticeable that the buzz is worse when I hold the guitar, like my body is picking up the interference and passing it on to the guitar. When I touch any of the guitar metalwork, the buzz almost disappears. Not noticeably worse with single coils vs humbuckers.
best wishes

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos »

I am not an electronics/ impedance/ shielding/ balanced vs HiZ expert, and can't analyze the technical reasons this is happening to you (it's been explained to me and my eyes are still glazed over--and I'm sure there are people trained in old-school engineering here who could clarify), but I can tell you it happens to lots of people, myself included, from time to time. The guitar plays a large part in it. My Danelectro bari (great sound, except for that hellacious hum when you're not facing in exactly the right direction) is one of the worst; Teles can be nasty, Strats as well, though you can use the "out of phase" position, if aesthetically compatible with your musical objective, to really cut the buzz. My Kent electric mandola, which is one of the coolest pieces of crap ever made, with its extraordinarily tone-full single coil, also can create a buzz that could saw through an oak log.

But what I've had good luck with, when all else fails, is to fix a wire to the, as you say, "metalwork" on the guitar, an alligator clip (or band aid) to the other end and put it in contact with skin... hip, arm, wherever. As you noted, body/ground can really zap the buzz. Give it a try!

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Re: Sonnox restoration plugs - are they included in Nuendo?

Post by ffg »

Thanks Chewy, I agree and I think all of us struggle with some variation of this issue.

The reason for this thread from my point of view is that I seem to have a low level buzz which isn’t entirely typical of the sort of interference we all get from pickups.

It IS quite low level, for clean guitar sounds I can easily gate it out. It becomes a problem with very overdriven and compressed tones.

It affects ALL guitars more or less equally

It can’t be tuned out by moving around the room or rotating the player.

It’s not a ground/earth loop issue, it affects guitar amps which aren’t even connected to the studio mains

It’s definitely related to grounding the player to the guitar, like you I’ve had some success grounding the guitar to the player with a wrist band.

I guess I was just hoping there might be an actual fix for the problem...
best wishes

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