Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

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pedroabreu77
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Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

Font size for the left hand fingering in Dorico Elements 3 is too small.

How can I change it?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Unfortunately that is not possible in Dorico Elements, because it's a setting in the Engraving Options dialog, which is only available in Dorico Pro. If you attach your project I'd be happy to change the value for you and return it to you.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Unfortunately that is not possible in Dorico Elements, because it's a setting in the Engraving Options dialog, which is only available in Dorico Pro. If you attach your project I'd be happy to change the value for you and return it to you.
Could you please consider adding this feature in Elements?

I understand that Elements has to be lighter in features but without this particular one it's unusable.

Just try to sight read anything with this font size.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

We won't add the Engraving Options dialog to Dorico Elements, I'm afraid: that's one of the key differentiators between the cut-down version and the full version. As I say, I'd be very happy to make this change for you in your project. I could even send you a file with a new default value saved in it that you could put in a specific location on your computer's hard disk that would guarantee all future projects would use the same value.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:30 pm
We won't add the Engraving Options dialog to Dorico Elements, I'm afraid: that's one of the key differentiators between the cut-down version and the full version. As I say, I'd be very happy to make this change for you in your project. I could even send you a file with a new default value saved in it that you could put in a specific location on your computer's hard disk that would guarantee all future projects would use the same value.
I wasn't asking for the Engraving Options dialog but for the ability to increase the font size in Elements.

Thank you for the workaround but that's not the way to do business. You shouldn't ever design a paid for software in such a way that it's NOT USABLE. That's just unacceptable!

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

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pedroabreu77 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:48 pm
You shouldn't ever design a paid for software in such a way that it's NOT USABLE. That's just unacceptable!
Pfft. Try telling that to the makers of Finale ;)
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

pianoleo wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:51 pm
pedroabreu77 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:48 pm
You shouldn't ever design a paid for software in such a way that it's NOT USABLE. That's just unacceptable!
Pfft. Try telling that to the makers of Finale ;)
Is that a justification?!

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pianoleo »

No, of course not. Having just played with Elements I don’t find it to be unusable - I don’t think the default font size for left hand fingering is too small. It’s a matter of opinion.
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

pianoleo wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:06 am
No, of course not. Having just played with Elements I don’t find it to be unusable - I don’t think the default font size for left hand fingering is too small. It’s a matter of opinion.
Please, don't insult my intelligence. This is not a matter of opinion!

The font size is indeed too small. For sight reading is unusable.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Pedro, by how much would you like the left-hand fingering digits to be enlarged?

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by Rob Tuley »

pedroabreu77 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:15 am
Please, don't insult my intelligence. This is not a matter of opinion!
How many other people have complained that this is "unusable"?

None. I just did a search to check.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:47 am
Pedro, by how much would you like the left-hand fingering digits to be enlarged?
I don't know the numbers.

Try it like this:

- sit with a guitar
- place the music stand in front of you at a far enough distance so that you don't bump into it during your playing
- lower the stand at a height so that it doesn't cover too much yourself and the guitar from the public
- then check if you feel confortable with the font size for the LH fingering and how much you'd tend to increase (consider a piece with multiple voices and any other scenarios texture wise).

I'm pretty sure you'll realize that the default font size is too small for sight reading.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pianoleo »

With that in mind, isn't the staff size too small? I mean, with a music stand at that sort of distance the 7mm staff size in the score layout is too small for my liking, but I was considering the part layout, which has a staff size of 8.5mm. That makes the fingering font 21.4% bigger, and perfectly suitable for sightreading (in my apparently useless opinion). But hey, you knew that, didn't you?
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

pianoleo wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:33 am
With that in mind, isn't the staff size too small? I mean, with a music stand at that sort of distance the 7mm staff size in the score layout is too small for my liking, but I was considering the part layout, which has a staff size of 8.5mm. That makes the fingering font 21.4% bigger, and perfectly suitable for sightreading (in my apparently useless opinion). But hey, you knew that, didn't you?
You didn't specify in the previous reply that you were talking about the part layout.

If it is the case then I'll due to apologize to both of you for my rant (although, in all fairness, you did threw some wood at the fire with that Finale remark).
Last edited by pedroabreu77 on Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pianoleo »

You didn't specify that you'd not bothered to investigate the staff size. Even in Elements you have full control over staff size...
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

pianoleo wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:03 am
You didn't specify that you'd not bothered to investigate the staff size. Even in Elements you have full control over staff size...
No, I did not. You're right about that.

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

pedroabreu77 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:09 am
pianoleo wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:03 am
You didn't specify that you'd not bothered to investigate the staff size. Even in Elements you have full control over staff size...
No, I did not. You're right about that.
P. S. - after looking at it again I'll have to stand by my initial complaint. The fingering is still too small. Increasing the staff size is a grotesque move in many cases (depending on the texture).

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by dankreider »

pedroabreu77 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:28 am
pedroabreu77 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:09 am
pianoleo wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:03 am
You didn't specify that you'd not bothered to investigate the staff size. Even in Elements you have full control over staff size...
No, I did not. You're right about that.
P. S. - after looking at it again I'll have to stand by my initial complaint. The fingering is still too small. Increasing the staff size is a grotesque move in many cases (depending on the texture).
Daniel asked you to suggest a font size that’s better...
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by MarcLarcher »

Honestly, Dorician friends, I don't think that Pedro can answer Daniel's question without having Dorico Pro and trying different settings with the fingering font size in the Edit Font Styles window…
Pedro, please note that everybody here is there to help you, and most of us are not affiliated to Steinberg in any other way that we are very satisfied users. The forum etiquette is mostly based on respect, so you can understand why the first rant was not really welcome ;-)
Would it be possible for you to ask for a Dorico pro trial, so that you can test yourself the different font sizes and give Daniel an accurate answer? Or do you prefer that we provide a series of example files (that you could provide us here, zipping the file) where we choose some font sizes and you decide which one suits you best?
Hope this helps.
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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pedroabreu77 »

MarcLarcher wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:05 am
Honestly, Dorician friends, I don't think that Pedro can answer Daniel's question without having Dorico Pro and trying different settings with the fingering font size in the Edit Font Styles window…
Pedro, please note that everybody here is there to help you, and most of us are not affiliated to Steinberg in any other way that we are very satisfied users. The forum etiquette is mostly based on respect, so you can understand why the first rant was not really welcome ;-)
Would it be possible for you to ask for a Dorico pro trial, so that you can test yourself the different font sizes and give Daniel an accurate answer? Or do you prefer that we provide a series of example files (that you could provide us here, zipping the file) where we choose some font sizes and you decide which one suits you best?
Hope this helps.
The ability to control the font size should be the answer just like with most editing software, even the free ones. I bought Elements to tried it out before giving my school a green light to buy a package of 10 licenses. Even the purchase of the Pro is being considered although none of my colleagues would ever used it for any advanced tasks. That's why I was hoping that the Elements version would be good enough for our needs. Changing a font size should be simple as selecting the number and being given the option either by right-click or whatever (properties panel?). You simply should allow this task to be done in Elements, period.

Yes, I did rant because I'm an unsatisfied costumer with this trick on the Steinberg's side - it's a bait trick and who ever decided on it should just admit that it's a cheap shot. You do offer me workarounds but that's not the point here. The point is that Elements is advertised as a program suitable for certain uses and it doesn't deliver. There's this thing called false advertising and this is becoming an example of one in case you don't consider including this basic feature.

I'm over with my rant here. You already know what are my complaints.

Btw, not everyone joined this conversation to help but rather to instigate.

All the best!

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Re: Dorico Elements 3 - Left hand fingering

Post by pianoleo »

At the risk of stoking this fire further (and I'm really trying not to):
1. We really are here to help - all of us.
2. The font for guitar left hand fingering is not a specific font style; the size really is controlled from a page within Engraving Options. Even if Elements had access to adjust the individual fonts and font sizes, it wouldn't have the capability to adjust left hand guitar fingering unless it had access to the Engraving Options dialog.
3. If you go with Elements, you have to defer to Dorico's opinion on many things. Despite this, the product manager of Dorico is offering you a personal favour.
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