Master Tune

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
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EdmKlw
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Master Tune

Post by EdmKlw » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:59 pm

The Master Tune A=440,0Hz is not the same for all instruments.
There are many instruments that play approx. +2.2 Hz when Master Tune set to A=440,0Hz.

For example, „Yamaha S90ES Piano“ plays 442,2Hz when Master Tune set to 440,0Hz.
„Bright Rock Piano“ is also wrong.
„Melow Grand Piano“ is ok

I suspect it is not all, but some instruments from the library „Halion Sonic SE3“ and “HALion Symphonic Orchestra“ are affected.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Master Tune

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:41 am

Welcome to the forum, EdmKlw, and thanks for your feedback on this. I will pass your feedback on to the sound designers responsible for the HALion factory content, but I imagine they might disagree with your assessment.

EdmKlw
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Re: Master Tune

Post by EdmKlw » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:12 pm

Thank you, Daniel for the quick response and the passing on.
But I didn't think it was, it really is like is.
When playing 4-handed (I play on the Yamaha CP4 and the second player is a Wav file generated with Dorico 3), I always have to set the „Yamaha S90ES Piano“ 2,2Hz lower.
Comparison with a tuning fork or with KDM-2 Digital Metronome confirms it.

TopDots
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Re: Master Tune

Post by TopDots » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:08 pm

I admit from the outset that I know nothing about electronics and all that lovely magic that happens when one pushes the on button but saying that, and fully accepting your piano is not pitched at 440, could it be that your keyboard is actually at fault and not the other way around?
Software - the usual stuff

Rob Tuley
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Re: Master Tune

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:33 pm

I don't think it's a simple as "the pitch is set wrong".

If you play "Yamaha S90ES Piano" and "Mellow Grand Piano" in unison from Dorico, it sounds like the amount of stretched tuning on the two pianos is different. They are out of tune with each other at C2, but more or less in tune at C6.

The beat rates jump around a lot from note to note. Either the pianos were tuned to different temperaments and are playing "as recorded", or the samples have been inconsistently retuned. The F2s are way out of tune but the A2s are almost in tune, for example.

The S90ES and "Bright Rock Piano" are closer in tune with each other, but not what I would call "in tune".

EdmKlw
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Re: Master Tune

Post by EdmKlw » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:38 pm

TopDots, the verification is simple:
In "Halion Sonic SE3" Window load "Yamaha S90ES Piano" and press the A 440 key, and compare it to a reference tone (e.g. tuning fork or Digital Metronome).

Rob, "Halion Sonic SE3" uses the Equel Temperament (12-EDO). Within the library, the A 440 would have to be the same for each instrument. I cannot imagine that the instruments have different temperature control.

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Re: Master Tune

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:00 pm

EdmKlw wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:38 pm
Rob, "Halion Sonic SE3" uses the Equel Temperament (12-EDO). Within the library, the A 440 would have to be the same for each instrument. I cannot imagine that the instruments have different temperature control.
I'm not talking about how the pianos in the sample library "ought to be" tuned. I'm telling you what my ears tell me about how they ARE tuned.

Just play F2 on the two pianos in unison and listen to the beats. They are certainly more than 2.2 Hz different.

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Re: Master Tune

Post by EdmKlw » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:17 pm

The bass range is tuned a little deeper with real pianos, the discant is higher, because of the inharmonicity (depending on the instrument), as you already say: stretched tuning. You can use it in the libraries to, but at A440 everyone meets.

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