Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

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henryflurry
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Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by henryflurry » Thu May 30, 2019 6:30 am

Hi!

Any reasons you can see why my fingerings might not line up on beat 2, even though I have them set to do such in Engraving Options? (They line up on beats 5 & 9.)
Screen Shot 2019-05-29 at 10.26.50 PM.png
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Henry

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by henryflurry » Thu May 30, 2019 6:32 am

I've even adjusted the minimum gap between voices to a high number (e.g., 5)

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu May 30, 2019 8:04 pm

Try increasing the value for 'Minimum horizontal gap between fingering and other item' (on the Fingering page of Engraving Options).

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by henryflurry » Thu May 30, 2019 8:48 pm

Thanks Daniel -

That didn't manage to line them up, just push the first set higher.
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 12.25.30 PM.png
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A little more experimenting from a separate file shows that it is adding the slur that breaks the vertical line up. Here's a simple example:
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 12.46.36 PM.png
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Moving the start of the slur out of the way from within Engrave doesn't seem to help.

Thanks!
Henry

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by henryflurry » Thu May 30, 2019 8:52 pm

I found a visual solution. In write - I start the slur on the second note of the measure, and in Engrave, I drag the start to the previous note:
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 12.50.33 PM.png
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If this is considered a bug that should eventually get fixed, please let me know and I'll watch for the fix so I can go back and adjust the file appropriately when that is don..

Thanks!

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri May 31, 2019 12:03 am

I certainly don't see any bugs here, for what it's worth.

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by John Ruggero » Fri May 31, 2019 2:14 am

henryflurry, you need to take a look at the way fingering is presented in well-edited piano music. (Wiener Urtext, Henle, etc.) More than half of your fingering is superfluous. For example, all that needs to appear over your first chord is the number 4. Fingering for the second of a tied pair is never shown unless the fingering changes, and it is never shown in parentheses.

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Fri May 31, 2019 7:55 am

I agree completely with John. I'd also avoid placing fingering on notes which couldn't logically be played by any other finger, given the context. One thing most keyboard players really dislike is an unnecessarily cluttered score.
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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Andre » Fri May 31, 2019 8:25 am

I agree that there is too much fingering, I did it like this in the past for a publisher I engraved for and they told me to only add fingering where needed, not where it’s obvious. That only cluttered the page.
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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Rob Tuley » Fri May 31, 2019 9:42 am

The thing is, reading a passage like the example, I wouldn't even think about the fingering (unless it was at an insanely fast tempo, or something). I would just play the notes.

If you paint yourself into a corner while sight reading and "run out of fingers" - well, that's one reason why pianos have sustain pedals :)

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by ReRei » Fri May 31, 2019 10:22 am

There are very good reasons existing to write more fingerings than some of you think should be written down. Especially when you want/need to help pupils/students for practicing at home. :-)

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Rob Tuley » Fri May 31, 2019 11:27 am

ReRei, that depends whether you want to teach students how to play the piano, or teach them how to play one piece by rote.

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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Derrek » Fri May 31, 2019 2:26 pm

My piano teacher once described to me a Bach score he had seen belonging to another teacher of mine, a world class organist. He said that every note had been fingered (by hand) in the organists copy, which dated from his student days. Years later the organist could pick up the music and rapidly have it ready for a performance since he had always used exactly the same fingering for every note (motor memory).

That said, the fingerings were handwritten by the then student organist (not entered by the publisher), and my own teacher told me of the practice but never himself had me subscribe to it
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Re: Fingerings don't line up on a specific split voice

Post by Rob Tuley » Fri May 31, 2019 2:57 pm

Derrek, that's exactly the same method as the Debussy quote. Work the fingering out for yourself. Whether or not somebody then needs to write it down depends how good their memory is.

My piano teacher made me do a more draconian version of the same exercise: finger a piece completely without any access to a keyboard. By the time you can do that with close to 100% accuracy, you can also do it in real time, so you don't need to write anything down!

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