Corrupted DDP ?

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Hellmaster92
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Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Hellmaster92 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:45 pm

Hi guys,

I'm having an issue with Wavelab Pro 9.5. I work as a mastering engineer and I sometimes do DDP exports for a CD's manufacturing company. Since the beginning of 2019, I had two majors issues and I don't really know if the problem comes from me or the company.

I did two very simple DDP (standard pauses, Redbook norm) and the clients of the company came back with error readings. Some CDs doesn't work. Not all of them, just a few, like 10 %.

I don't change anything in my way of doing DDP so I don't really know what could be the mistake, if I made one.

My partner, the CD's manufacturing company, is a service provider. They just give the order to manufacture the CD, and they use to work with 2 plants. The first issue happened with a new plant, and that was the first time I sent them a DDP. So we first believed the issue came from them.

But last week, I sent a DDP to the second plant, with whom I used to work with. And the same problem appeared.

Have you guys ever experienced problems like mine ? Have you got an idea of how I should diagnosed it ?

I opened my DDP with others softs like Studio One Pro 4 and it works fine. I burnt CDs from the DDP with Wavelab & Studio One and it worked again.

Does the conformity check of Wavelab before export is reliable ?

Thank you in advance !

R.

Kay Thomsen
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Kay Thomsen » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:16 pm

Hi,

there is an option after exporting to DDP called "Import Audio Montage". Please check the "verification DDP checksums (slow)" option.
If there is something wrong with the DDP, it would bring out a message.

cheers
Kay

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Justin P
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Justin P » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:10 pm

I can say that I've been using WaveLab exclusively for making DDP files since ~2012 and have never had a DDP rejected or problematic CDs made (that have been reported to me anyway).

I always use CD Track Splice Makers instead of separate end/start markers because I think it's easier to keep things clean and simple. Only the first track start ID and the last track end ID are on their own. All the IDs for the start of tracks 2 and higher are CD Track Splice Markers. It also makes rendering WAV or mp3 files of the tracks easier too. You can be confident the track spacings are correct.

Aside from importing the DDP back in to a new montage as Kay suggested, you may want to try opening the DDP in Sonoris DDP Creator or a DDP Player like HOFA DDP Player to see if you see any errors or strange things. A 2nd or 3rd opinion is sometimes revealing.

Also, if you want to send me the .mon file that the DDP was made from, I can take a look. I don't need the audio, just the .mon file. Maybe it will provide a clue.
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by S-EH » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:44 pm

Hi!

If like Kay and Justing is really pointing out here the DDP is checked for errors
and is reading back in WaveLab and other software and nothing wrong is found,
then the plant have to explain, 10 % pressed CD's is not working ???

regards S-EH
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Hellmaster92 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:14 pm

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for answering me !

I tried all of your advice, and nothing seems to be wrong.

Justin, I'd be really grateful if you could have a look. Here are the both .mon files :

https://mega.nz/#!iXIWCAjQ!mLwHuo0lqy5c ... anZqvhKBxo

https://mega.nz/#!qbZADSoY!bjRQ73NxwCXY ... q_ly7p6Lbw

Thank you in advance,

R.

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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Justin P » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:51 pm

I did a quick scan and everything seems to check out.

Are you zipping the DDP folder before transmitting it to them? Can they give you an idea of the error they are getting?

Also, yeah, when you say 10% of the CDs are not working, do you mean 10% of a single pressing of a CD? That seems odd and more like a manufacturing problem than something on your end.

Sorry I don't have more info for you.
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Rat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:36 am

These are replicated CDs ... not limited run duplicated .... correct?

I agree with Justin's assessment ... if 9 out of 10 replicated CDs are playing OK it suggests a manufacturing/duplicating error.
Regards

Paul

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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Hellmaster92 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:06 am

Yes, the client wanted 1000 CDs, and he had almost 100 CDs that doesn't work at all.

My partner seems to be at the same position as you, the error came probably from the plant.

Justin, I sometimes zip the DDP folder, sometimes not. I thought about this too, do you think an error may appear by a compressing/decompressing process ? The checksum wouldn't point that mistake?

Rat, these are actually replicated CD only.

The DDPs seems to be correct, the only strange thing is that problem occured with 2 differents plants with 2 of my DDPs. The only one suggestion left is a compressing/decompressing error... I use a PC with Winrar to zip the files, and both of the plants have Mac.

R.

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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Rat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:14 pm

Hellmaster92 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:06 am


The DDPs seems to be correct, the only strange thing is that problem occured with 2 differents plants with 2 of my DDPs. The only one suggestion left is a compressing/decompressing error... I use a PC with Winrar to zip the files, and both of the plants have Mac.

R.
OK ... so if they are replicated ... and therefore would all have been produced from the same glass master prepared from your DDP ... the logical conclusion is that it is a quality control issue at the plant.

Whilst it is possible to have a zip upload/download error, in that case the plant would always contact you and let you know that the DDP wouldn't unpack or didn't test properly.

I make the observation that there are a few replication places out there which previously basically only produced DVDs. With the downturn in that sector they have turned to audio CD production, but don't necessarily have the QC processes in place.

May I suggest that you always zip the DDP file set (some plants won't even accept non zipped).
Regards

Paul

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Thomas W. Bethel
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:35 pm

It sounds like a CD pressing plant problem from what is being described. Also some CD plants use to say their CDs were pressed when in reality the were burned to save money in glass mastering. This would certainly account for the 10% rejection rate. So a word to the wise.
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Justin P
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Justin P » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:32 pm

I always zip the DDP folder. Even though included detailed instructions, now and then a client will manage to send JUST the HOFA DDP Player app embedded in the DDP Player folder to the plant (which gets rejected of course), or ask me which files in the folder the plant needs.

Then I have to remind them to send the entire zipped file.

That being said, I don't see how a zipping issue would make some CDs not work.

If a CD plant rejects a DDP, they should be able to provide some type of error report to help explain what is wrong.

If roughy 10% of the CDs don't work, it's likely not due to the DDP.
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Rat » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:21 am

When you say the CDs 'don't work' you mean they just don't play at all (ie they are coasters) correct? That is, you put them in and they either don't find/display the TOC or do so but then nothing happens when you press 'play'.

Do you still have have a CD QC tool like PlexTools Professional or a Clover type machine to error check the ones that don't play? This would at least tell you what the non-play issue was (and helpful in the discussions with the client).

As you'd know, if they simply don't play that's likely a CU/E32 error (typically fatal). Given that the DDP was successfully used to prepare a glass master that, in turn, managed to result in 90% of manufactured disks being OK, suggests QC issues at the plant.

The only other thing I can think of is the length of the CD. I have seen a situation where technically out of spec CDs (length wise) are manufactured OK but do not play in all players (as you'd expect). 81 min for example. In that case the plant typically requires an indemnity from the customer warning them that the disks may not play and absolving them of responsibility before proceeding to manufacture.
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Paul

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S-EH
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by S-EH » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:04 am

But shouldn't the DDP make a 100% glass master
or are they making burned CDR's ?
To me it sound like the plant's have problem if 10% isn't working at all !

regards S-EH
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Hellmaster92
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Re: Corrupted DDP ?

Post by Hellmaster92 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:05 pm

Rat : Yes, the Cds don't play at all. Nothing happen when put into a player. I don't have these CD with me anymore, But I'll suggest my partner to check his defective CDs with the CD QC...

Justin : Thank you for the advice !

Thomas : These plants are fair and we are used to work with them. This is the first time we have an issue with them. So I don't think they would duplicate CDs instead of press them. It's just a process error that must be resolved. :D


I'm indeed reassured to know that I made no mistake in the process. My partner will stop working with them until they prove they have identified the issue and have solved it.

Thanks to all of you for your care & your advice, it really helps me !

R.

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