Behavior of "Repeat Item"

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TylerE
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Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:24 pm

Is there any way to tweak the behavior of the repeat item command (R) to make it more like sibelius? In particular, I'd like to have it take the pitch(s) from the previous entry, but the duration, accents, etc as currently toggled. This would make it much less annoying to enter typical repeated chord patterns like accented quarter / 8th / 8th.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:38 pm

No, it can’t be changed. You can use a function like Lock Duration, but that’s the opposite of what you want, I think.

You could turn on insert mode and change the rhythmic duration of the selected pitches one at a time (or in groups) by pressing the corresponding number.

Of course, nearly any available function can be mapped to any desired key command.

Could you explain a bit more what you’re wanting to achieve? There may be an easier way, but I’m not exactly clear on what you’re wanting to do.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:40 pm

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid...

I don't really understand why it functions the way it does... the way it works in Sibelius is really much more user friendly. I'm starting to come around to Dorico after repeated attempts over the years, but many things are still so click/key intensive it's just obnoxious. (Another personal bugbear: triplets... I wish that ; would just default to 3:2 and only invoke the popover with, say, Ctrl+;). I mean - they're little things - but it can feel a bit like death by 1000 cuts.
Last edited by TylerE on Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:41 pm

Click intensive? You’re doing it wrong then. Dorico is the opposite of “click intensive”! It’s basically all achievable on the keyboard.

Explain more what you’re wanting and maybe we can help.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:42 pm

; generally does default to 3:2... FWIW. Semicolon, Enter.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:44 pm

I thought I explained it in the first post. In Sibelius R repeats the pervious note/chord but with the "current' duration and articulations.

So, to create a 4-8-8 pattern it's just 4 - <enter note> 3 r r. No mouse activity at all.

Your proposed Dorico solution I have to go back and edit the durations.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:45 pm

dankreider wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:42 pm
; generally does default to 3:2... FWIW. Semicolon, Enter.
Doesn't seem to work in input mode? The popover is always empty. It works if I click on an existing note. (But again...clicky...I'd prefer my note entry work flow didn't involve going back after entering pitches to click on stuff to edit it.)

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:47 pm

Another general example: Adding intervals. In Sib, this is a one key operation (or 2 if using shift+interval to add an interval below).

In Dorico the same involves a minimum of 4 key presses (shift+i + interval + enter)

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:50 pm

I’ve mapped the interval popover to Q. Q, 3, enter. Or Q, -4, enter.

Yes, it’s different from Sibelius and Finale. There are a couple things I miss from Finale. But Dorico’s superior in so many ways, it’s not a contest.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:52 pm

You don’t have to go back and edit the durations. After you press R, the duplicated chord is selected. Then just hit the number to change the duration. Not in input mode.

Also, stop clicking! ;-) Use the keyboard for almost everything.

You can also lengthen or shorten the durations or selected notes by using Shift-Alt-left or right arrow.

Don’t evaluate Dorico by comparing it to Sibelius. Give its unique workflow a chance.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:55 pm

dankreider wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:52 pm
You don’t have to go back and edit the durations. After you press R, the duplicated chord is selected.
Huh? I'm confused as hell now. When I hit R, it adds the repeated item and then advances the caret. (Or if I'm in chord mode the caret stays in place but the note isn't selected and I can't change the duration).

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:56 pm

Get out of note input mode. If you want to use R with modifications, it’s best to not be in note input mode.

Exit note input mode. Select the chord, press R, 8, R, etc.…
Last edited by dankreider on Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:57 pm

That's what I'm talking about. That's more commands. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to do my note input while remaining in input mode instead of toggling modes all the time.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:59 pm

OK, with respect, it sounds like you’re still comparing it to Sibelius, and deciding at the beginning that you don’t like the difference before you’ve given it a chance! ;-)

When I’m using R, I’m not continually toggling back and forth. In fact, R sometimes means I don’t even need note input mode.

Look, I understand the challenge. I used Finale for 20 years. Yes, it was an adjustment. Trust me, it’s worth the effort!
Last edited by dankreider on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan Kreider

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:01 pm

Well, again, I'm just confused. According to you, without toggling you can't change the duration. Ok, if I just want to make 8th notes ad infinitum life is easy. I don't think making a comparison is unfair when something is easy in one program and (seemingly by design) more difficult in another.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:04 pm

So you have a quarter note triad or other chord, and you want to duplicate it as 8ths?

Easy. Click on the chord to select it. Press R, 8, R. I don’t understand how that’s an imposition.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:06 pm

PS: I’m not trying to be obnoxious. I’m on this forum because I am deeply committed to Dorico’s methods and believe it’s truly superior. I’m happy to help. Learning it takes time, but Dorico has very few reverse converts for a reason.
Last edited by dankreider on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:07 pm

It's 2 more key presses and a forced mouse click more.

I mean, if it's your position that this extra work is "acceptable" fine, but don't try to tell me it's just as good when it isn't.

Dorico does a lot of things really well, and I'm glad it's gotten this far, but note input is subpar.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:08 pm

One last plea to not use the mouse... use Enter and Esc.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 pm

dankreider wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:08 pm
One last plea to not use the mouse... use Enter and Esc.
Now i'm confused again. Your directions said "click the chord to select it".

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 pm

Sorry, you’re right. I meant for note input toggle. But how else would you select the chord before duplicating it?
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:11 pm

But to loop back around, I'm still failing to see any justification for why Dorico acts this. This change would only make more things easier to do. If you do nothing but hit R the functionality would work exactly the same way it does today.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by TylerE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:12 pm

dankreider wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 pm
Sorry, you’re right. I meant for note input toggle. But how else would you select the chord before duplicating it?
I don't want to have to select it! I'm entering notes. In input mode. The chord I'm working with is the chord I just entered.

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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:14 pm

But a chord won’t be selected unless it was entered in one shot, via MIDI. Otherwise, only one note will be selected.
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Re: Behavior of "Repeat Item"

Post by dankreider » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:16 pm

R duplicates exactly what was selected. Pitches, Durations, articulations, everything. That’s what I’m used to, and that’s what I want. I don’t want it to change.

R is meant to be used outside of note input, typically.

I’m just a user. I have no authority and can’t speak for the team. As I said, I miss a couple things about note input in Finale (some big ones), but Dorico is way better for me, overall.
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