Question about recording In Cubase 10

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JohnS
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Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:11 am

Hi
I just got Cubase 10 and learning how to mix a song.
I record midi from the Genos workstation and convert to wave for mixing and also use vst instruments.
I do not sing.

Ok, I have done my gain staging and got all my instrumentation at -18 to -14 db for leaving headroom.
I noticed at the start of playing my recording which is on several tracks and when certain parts not playing there is activity in the supposed to be silent areas. I checked this at about - 40 to -48 db activity.
I have a good volume on my heaphones and cannot hear anything. On my monitors you can hear hissing when up loud, but i never go to that extreme monitoring.
what is making this activity at this low decibel level. It can be cleaned up, but I would like to know if there is any interference coming from anything. Nothing to do with Cubase 10 being new??
Anyone have any ideas what i am on about.
I have got my little home studio setup and all seems to be going ok
I thought that the meters on the Cubase mixer would go back to nothing when not in action when a track is going.
Is it limitations of a focusrite 6i6?? Still learning.
Any help would be appreciated


All the best
john

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raino
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by raino » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:26 am

Can you post a screenshot of your Project Window and also indicate which Tracks you are seeing with this behavior? Is it only on Audio Tracks or Instrument Tracks or...?

I wouldn't be too concerned about it. There are tons of things that can introduce traces of noise under normal conditions. That said it is a good idea understand what's happening.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by Prock » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:30 am

A thought... It could be background noise from a VSTi you are using.

Example... when I use my VB3 II VSTi (Hammond Organ sounds) I always have a low level of sound because of the spinning Leslie speaker effects. This can also happen when I use certain reverbs and guitar VST effects on audio tracks. These low sounds do show up in the mixer.

Regards 8-)
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:06 am

Hi Rodger
Here is a picture of the first part of learning to mix with the silent parts showing some activity while track is playing. dont take the pad synth into account as that was coming down when taking the snapshot. It is the little even ones.
These are wave files converted from midi sounds from my Yamaha Genos.
I played the song and tidied it up In Cubase and coverted to separate audio tracks for mixing
I have not introduced any vst to this recording.

If it is nothing to worry about is it best to use a denoiser of some sort to clean the signal up??


All the best
john
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by raino » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:34 am

OK so this is rendered audio. In your pic the cursor is at 6.3.2.6. On the noisy tracks in the Project Window is there actually an Audio Event on the Track at 6.3.2.6.

If there is an Event that probably means the noise is part of the audio file itself. Use the Sample Editor to take a look. Good chance this got generated while processing and rendering the audio.

If there is no Audio Event that implies there is something in your signal chain that is generating noise like a plug-in. Although your Inserts are empty...
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:05 pm

Hi Rodger

I have looked at this again today and I tried putting the pathway to my Focusrite 6i6 to computer through a hum eliminator but that does nothing .So I changed back to where I was..
The midi from my Genos recorded has no noise whatsoever and that is clean as far as clean goes.
It is when I have coverted to audio that the activity starts.
I put the frequency plugin in the master out and at the start where there is silence there is three little narrow peaks at the high end of the EQ range
or three little spikes.
So i am not using any plugins to cause this,jut converting midi from Genos to audio.
Being all digital and having no outside interference baffles me unless there is a little gremlin inside the machine.
The little spikes are at -70db, but when playing goes to -55db at the worst.
Also i noticed on the mixer that the Stereo out always shows -74 when nothing is playing.
I do not know whether this is a normal anomaly and most people clean the audio afterwards.
I am trying my hardest to get this right ,but should I worry about It.
I would like to know what is causing this.


All the best
John

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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by Manike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Sounds like electrical noise - you've got a lot of gain boosts going on, both on the channels and the master.

You'd be better off just recording your keys louder to begin with. Don't use de-noisers etc..

You could run your keys through a DI box with a ground lift.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:37 pm

Hi Manike
Ok then i took a picture of the mixer with nothing in it at all

No gain either

Two pictures showing something at -68 to -70 db

1 just showing stereo channel
2 then the audio orange button engaged.
Showing the same db .

I would like to know what it is causing this as it is annoying knowing you got some activity when nothing is going on.
Also i did try a hum eliminator and it did not do anything.
I do use a hum eliminator on my DXR 8 speakers and that cures the buzz from the mains, but I have my FocalAlphas connected to my Focurite.
At the moment they are off and i am using AKG 701 headphones.
I never noticed this In Cubase 9.5. I am wondering If this is a Cubase 10 thing that needs looking at
I really do not want to have to keep cleaning my audio files.


All the best]John
Attachments
screen with audio activated.jpg
audio activated
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just stereo channel
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Last edited by JohnS on Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manike
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by Manike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:47 pm

It's just the noise from your preamp. You'll probably see it go down if you turn down the preamp.

Everyone has it - you get it especially with preamps integrated with a audio interface.

If you stop monitoring the channel it'll go away - It's tiny compared with what you're recording in.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:38 pm

i Manike
I cannot turn down the focusrite as I am only using headphones at the moment and want a decent listen level



All the best
John

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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:35 pm

hi
Does everyone else get a certain amount of what i am on about and just clean the audio after you finished???

KHS
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by KHS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:53 pm

Manike didn't suggest to turn down the headphone volume but to turn down the preamp gain.
It's just preamp noise, everyone has it and no one will clean it other than editing it out when there is no audio playing on the track.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:32 pm

Hi KHS

I am a little off tech terms ,but you say turn down pre-amp
I have a Focusrite 6i6 and presume that is a combined pre amp and sound box.
I have the volume to the speakers turned right down and just the headphone volume up and I cannot turn that down anymore as that is just ok at three quarters volume unless i get a headphone amp.
I listen at not much more that normal volume ,not too loud at all
That noise as you say will run through the whole track -60 t0 -70 db.
It takes a bit to get the AKG 701's going.

So this is normal. Then if so is it the best thing to put a gate on the final output bus and set to -60db.
Sorry for being a pain about this, but i would like to know how everyone gets over this as minor as it may seem.
I just dont want mess adding up.

All the best
john

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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by Manike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:43 pm

You're only hearing it through the whole track because one of your tracks has the monitor button selected.

It will be part of every sound you record but it's no big deal because its tiny. You can use a gate or you can just clean up your audio as you go and take it out manually. But even if you didn't no-one would notice.


The preamp is what you plug your mic in to the boost the level.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:40 pm

Hi Manike
Just a last thing here
I disable all monitor orange buttons and there is no difference.
I had to have a monitor button on to hear midi from my keyboard and that is clean.If i rendered midi to audio would that bypass the interference rather than record It if the monitor button was off before rendering??.
Anyway you are right in saying it is to minimal to worry about, but I did not get this in 9.5 i think.. I cant go back to check now.
I have dropped the gate in and it got rid of it.
Some people put their songs in that free program Audacity and that cleans up,but I would like to do that in Cubase.
It is a big learn curve this program.
Now I know it is not a big deal i feel happier.
All I wanted to know if this anomaly is the norm in making music and it does not harm to ask.
I have managed to gain stage and mix now.
My next challenge is to get my songs up to the standard of my reference track.
It is all huff n' Puff at the moment. Not Gryffindor. Maybe Slithering. Still waiting to get In the School of Wizardry :lol:

All the best
John :)

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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by raino » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:45 am

The problem those of us replying are having is that we can't see or follow the signal flow from source to the MixConsole which is what is really needed to determine that XYZ is the noise source.

Just the existence of this thread shows how spoiled we are expecting silence to be silent. Back in the day you just tried to keep the hiss from building to a roar.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by KHS » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:46 pm

The preamp gain is the "volume knob" of the input. I even believe that the knob on your 6i6 says GAIN and it is placed right next to each of the input jacks.
..Or as suggested by others, stop monitoring the inputs. Im not familiar with Focusrite, but is it possible there is a direct monitoring function in the driver software that are turned on.
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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by Oscar Goldman » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:12 pm

dont have ur interface...but...
sounds like:
-hi-z input turned up (turn down)
-too much gain on card (turn down)
-some other devices (usually soundcard or dock going through card or whatever) noisefloor... just mute your input channels...
-you not authorized for higher dbs (teehee;) )

Just some random ideas...;)

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Re: Question about recording In Cubase 10

Post by JohnS » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:10 pm

Hi
I have come to the conclusion, record your instrument at a higher input and as Rodger states " We have been spoiled"!!
It is down to too much input gain which causes that noisefloor on the channel strips.
I must admit Audacity solves the issue by taking a small sample of the noise and then applying it to the whole track. As it is about -50db aprox it does the jobby . Can Cubase 10 do this??


all the best
John

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