Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

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Thurisaz
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Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:40 pm

Hello Dorico team,
I'm trying to find how can I make the Piano Roll & the automation lane in "Play" mode as wider as I need. Dragging the track "window" should work, as in every DAW, but in Dorico doesn't. Also there is no way to perform Vertical Zooming in the Piano Roll.
I'm still trail user, but can I make some feature requests related to the piano roll? :-)

1. Would be nice if there is Hybrid View... Staves + MIDI mock-up similar to "Staff View" in Overture. This is really helpful feature especially when Real-time recording becomes reality in Dorico.

2. Personally I prefer to have instant access to the Piano Roll / Staff View (per instrument) (Extendable + Automation Lane) while I'm in "Write" mode. I believe it could be added to the bottom panel. It's very comfortable to be able to make midi mock-up adjustment and at the same time to see what happens on the score sheet and vice versa. This surely will speed-up the workflow, especially for those who are DAW users.
Often switching between "Write" and "Play" slows down the workflow and it's very frustrating.

At this stage of development Dorico is oriented mostly to Engravers and people who write scores, not to people who work with DAW. From what can I see your aim is to make Dorico a notation based DAW, which great and really needed.
Please, think about it! :-)

Best regards :)

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MarcLarcher
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by MarcLarcher » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:09 pm

Hi !
Have you read that : viewtopic.php?f=246&t=140607?
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Thurisaz
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Hello Marc,
Thank you for the link! :-) I have found how to make Vertical Zooming inside the Piano Roll, but still I can't extend vertically the instrument track... The expanded instrument track is too small...

Greetings :-)

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:17 am

You should consider opening two windows onto your project via Window > New Window, which will allow you to have one window in Write mode and the other in Play mode.

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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:14 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:17 am
You should consider opening two windows onto your project via Window > New Window, which will allow you to have one window in Write mode and the other in Play mode.
Daniel hello,
Thank you for the reply! :-) It's great to have an opportunity to open another window, but this serves well if you have two or more monitors. If you work only on single screen it's not very comfortable to switch between the windows. My idea about the instant access is to have the piano roll (extendable) integrated in the bottom panel in "Write" mode. Check the screenshot: Dorico Write Mode Piano Roll.png, it would make the idea more clear. :-) The Bottom Panel in Cubase Pro allows you to have instant access to the Piano Roll and the Score Editor while working in the main Project Window. Let's consider the "Write" mode window main for Dorico.

About the Extendable Piano Roll... please take a look at the second screenshot attached below. I would like to extend the track with the piano roll down to the bottom of the "Play" mode window in order to make the midi mock-up editing more comfortable like in any DAW. In "Write" mode to be extendable up to the top of the window.

I hope you and your great team would think about these request! :-) Surely they will make the work of the users more easier and faster (telling this from my personal experience)
Thank you in advance! :-)

Best regards :-)
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Dorico Write Mode Piano Roll.png
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Dorico Extendable Piano Roll.png
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robjohn9999
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by robjohn9999 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:20 pm

Yes and yes! :-) (my two cents). Having the piano roll accessible right within the bottom of the Write mode would be extremely powerful and intuitive IMHO...(but I defer to the brilliant folks at Dorico)...
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm

You can already extend the piano roll in Play mode: you just have to find the right spot in the vertical black strip to the left of the track header to resize it.

I would certainly not rule out displaying the piano roll in a panel in Write mode someday, but it's not something that we will be working on in the near future.

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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:56 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 pm
You can already extend the piano roll in Play mode: you just have to find the right spot in the vertical black strip to the left of the track header to resize it.

I would certainly not rule out displaying the piano roll in a panel in Write mode someday, but it's not something that we will be working on in the near future.
Daniel hello,
Thank you very much for the reply! :-) I tried almost every place on the track to extend it, but with no success.. :( I'll try again...
About the Piano Roll in "Write" mode... When the Real-Time recording is implemented such access to the Piano Roll will be a must, not even optional. Probably you can't even imagine how much time this simple instant access saves when editing note lengths after recording... It allows you the make correction on the Score Sheet and in the Piano Roll without need to switch between modes, or separate windows... The two ways of editing must be on the screen at the same time. It's done in almost every existing DAW and the only notation software which has it, too - Overture 5.5. You can take Cubase as an example... :-)
You can always make a try, since there is an existing software which has this function and you'll see how important it is. :-)

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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Derrek » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:10 pm

Image
windows.png
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MarcLarcher
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by MarcLarcher » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:37 pm

Dear Thurisaz,
I made you a little video that might help you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gyeqgx7siu5o ... l.mov?dl=0
OS X 10.13.6, macbook pro retina Late 2013
Opera singer (lyric tenor), photographer, sound engineer, XeLaTeX user and quite often music engraver (Dorico Pro 2, and Photoscore Ultimate)
French is my native language

Thurisaz
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:00 pm

MarcLarcher wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:37 pm
Dear Thurisaz,
I made you a little video that might help you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gyeqgx7siu5o ... l.mov?dl=0
Dear Marc,
Thank you so much for the video! :-) The active zone is veeery small... The team have to think to make the whole lower track part active, like in Cubase. :-)
Thank you once again! :-)

Greetings :-)

Thurisaz
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:58 pm

Derrek wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:10 pm
Image
windows.png
Derrek hello,
Thank you for the reply! :-) I know this is possible. Daniel already told me. My point is this way serves well only in case you have 2 screens. If you have 1 screen this method doesn't make the workflow faster because the active window always appears on top and you always have to switch, which by the time will become very frustrating... That's why when the real-time recording is available the piano roll must become a part of the bottom panel in "Write" mode... It could be active there only when "Gallery View" is selected.

Daniel, sooner or later, after the implementation of Real-Time recording, surely you'll be driven to make this instant access possible in Dorico... Steinberg was driven by the market to make the Bottom Panel available in Cubase and Nuendo.. and it's the last company in the DAW business which did this... Since the aim of Dorico is to become a Notation based DAW.. there are some things that are must to have and this is one of them. :-)

Best regards :-)

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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by -steve- » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:33 pm

Why not just size the windows to suit? I have done this on one screen for a few weeks now, and it works very nicely for my purposes.
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Derrek » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:50 pm

My example was on one screen, not two. I merely moved the bottom window to align it with the top and to reduce the amount of space the image would take up in this thread. Here is what my entire screen looks like (much reduced).

Image
splitScreen.png
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Thurisaz
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Re: Extendable Piano Roll Track and Vertical Zoom

Post by Thurisaz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:28 am

Derrek wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:50 pm
My example was on one screen, not two. I merely moved the bottom window to align it with the top and to reduce the amount of space the image would take up in this thread. Here is what my entire screen looks like (much reduced).

Image
splitScreen.png
Derrek hello,
Yes, I've noticed that your example in the first post is on single screen. :-) Just using two separate windows on single screen is waste of so much space and it doesn't speed up the workflow.. In case you need to extend the Piano Roll first you have to extend the window and then the track. The only way to have fast workflow with two app windows is to have them maximized on two screens. My point is to have everything essential for faster workflow in single window, just like Overture, Cubase and any other DAW, when using single screen.
At this development stage of Dorico the Piano Roll is used only for humanizing the playback but once the real-time recording is there the appearance of it in the "Write" mode will become a must, because it's going to be used very often for correction of the note lengths, quantization (for people who are not very good pianists). The instant access to the notation and piano roll in single window/mode will be a must to have.

Greetings :-)

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