Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

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Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Mon May 28, 2018 6:22 pm

Seems simple. Will this ever be a feature (like every other DAW?) I'd love to be able to playback off one track thru my chain and capture directly under it in a new track while being able to live monitor.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm

OK. So I've figured out how to record into a lane. Is there a way to compensate for the latency so the new recording aligns with the source?
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Tue May 29, 2018 1:18 am

Why do this with Wavelab? It's not really designed for that. Why not use Cubase or Nuendo?

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Justin P » Tue May 29, 2018 1:34 am

stingray wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 1:18 am
Why do this with Wavelab? It's not really designed for that. Why not use Cubase or Nuendo?
A valid question. I wish WaveLab was better at this type of thing and as much as I love WaveLab for final audio touches, assembly, CD-Text Metadata,and final rendering, I use REAPER for the analog playback/capture using two tracks (one source track and one capture track) and it runs circles around doing this in WaveLab, or even Pro Tools which is what I was using before REAPER.

Even though it sounds convoluted using two apps (plus RX and Saracon if you really want to count), I ultimately get things done faster and with greater detail.

REAPER lets me feed more than one D/A to choose for my mastering chain and toggle between two different A/D converters seamlessly to compare. I can set the recording offset so that the captured tracks are perfectly in sync with the source tracks, and whenever I do more than one capture of the song, all captures are always perfectly in sync which is great if you need to do any comping or editing of passes.

At one point I thought it'd be great if WaveLab could improve it's analog play/capture workflow but I'm so far down the REAPER rabbit hole that WaveLab would really have to up it's game to catch up. That being said, I think the majority of users would prefer to stay in one app so I think Steinberg would be very wise to make major improvements in this area. It's a question that comes up often on various forums and the answer is never what the user wants to hear.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Tue May 29, 2018 9:08 am

Justin P wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 1:34 am
...I think the majority of users would prefer to stay in one app so I think Steinberg would be very wise to make major improvements in this area...
True.

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm

For 13+ years I've run out of one version of WL and captured in another. Every other DAW has this ability. It would improve my workflow. I'd love to be able to punch in on mixes/captures.

Not looking for a workaround (I already know them), just asking for a feature.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Justin P » Tue May 29, 2018 4:32 pm

plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm
For 13+ years I've run out of one version of WL and captured in another. Every other DAW has this ability. It would improve my workflow. I'd love to be able to punch in on mixes/captures.
I've been trying to explain the value of playing and capturing on the same timeline in WaveLab for awhile now. I also have the need to punch in to captures when only one part of a mix changes etc. In REAPER I can do it seamlessly> In WaveLab, even if it's possible it seems like a headache but I also don't even think it's possible.

I think WaveLab could be so much better if the analog play/capture features were seriously upgraded.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Tue May 29, 2018 8:17 pm

plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm
Not looking for a workaround (I already know them), just asking for a feature.
How would you like that feature to work? Do you want tracks in the montage to have the function to record in a similar manner to traditional DAWs (Reaper, Pro Tools Cubendo)?

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Tue May 29, 2018 8:23 pm

stingray wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:17 pm
plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm
Not looking for a workaround (I already know them), just asking for a feature.
How would you like that feature to work? Do you want tracks in the montage to have the function to record in a similar manner to traditional DAWs (Reaper, Pro Tools Cubendo)?
Yes...and record onto the track below.

Not sure why this hasn't been implemented. I understand WL is not a multitrack recorded, but anyone that uses outboard gear would love this. The current options (hardware insert) are not sufficient. Being able to live monitor is a must.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Tue May 29, 2018 8:57 pm

plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:23 pm
Not sure why this hasn't been implemented..
My guess is that Wavelab is marketed primarily as an 'audio editing and mastering suite'. If recording is implemented on montage tracks then I suppose this could encroach upon the functions of other Steinberg applications. How would you see Wavelab implement your request in a way which does not turn it into a multitrack recording application/ DAW?

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 pm

stingray wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:57 pm
plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:23 pm
Not sure why this hasn't been implemented..
My guess is that Wavelab is marketed primarily as an 'audio editing and mastering suite'. If recording is implemented on montage tracks then I suppose this could encroach upon the functions of other Steinberg applications. How would you see Wavelab implement your request in a way which does not turn it into a multitrack recording application/ DAW?
Not looking for a debate. Fact is, every other major mastering DAW has this functionality. WL is a mastering platform. Being able to record is vital unless you're ITB. I'd love to hear from Phillipe on this.

Again, I have a workaround but would love to stay in the same program for 100% of my work.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Tue May 29, 2018 9:14 pm

Not sure I follow your argument. WL is not a traditional DAW. But I'll not continue any debate, and also look forward to PG's comments, if he has any.

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am

Could we PLEASE stop making request to turn WL into CUBASE? It is a mastering DAW and not a multi-track recording platform. This requests keep appearing more and more. Why mess up a perfectly good mastering DAW by putting in a bunch of multi-track junk. Surely if this is an important part of your operation you can find the funds to purchase a multi-track DAW. I just don't see the "logic" in these request (yes it is a pun). Now if we are talking pitch/catch yes that would be a nice addition to WL but it is also sound card dependent. Leave WL a mastering DAW...PLEASE!
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Justin P » Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am
Could we PLEASE stop making request to turn WL into CUBASE? It is a mastering DAW and not a multi-track recording platform. This requests keep appearing more and more. Why mess up a perfectly good mastering DAW by putting in a bunch of multi-track junk. Surely if this is an important part of your operation you can find the funds to purchase a multi-track DAW. I just don't see the "logic" in these request (yes it is a pun). Now if we are talking pitch/catch yes that would be a nice addition to WL but it is also sound card dependent. Leave WL a mastering DAW...PLEASE!
I don't think anybody is asking for a full multitrack DAW, just a simple way to playback and capture on the same timeline between a few tracks. It's a common request because it's a common need for today's mastering engineers that use a hybrid of plugins and analog tools and want to do it all in one app on one machine which these days is totally feasible.

It's not about finding the funds for a multi-track DAW, I also own Pro Tools, REAPER (business license), Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, DSP Quattro, Triumph, and some others. A few have been purchased just to support development even though I can't really use them in my workflow today.

It's more about trying to help Steinberg make the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW. I personally don't mind using REAPER and WaveLab as a team but I'm sure many users want to keep it all in one app and as I've found from this forum and others, many people do as I do and use a multi-track DAW for the play/capture process and WaveLab only for the final touches, montage assembly, CD-Text/metadata, rendering final files etc.

Other than Sequoia/Samplitude and Pyramix, I don't know if anything that really comes close and those are PC only.

There is a clear void for the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW and nobody seems to be filling it.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by bob99 » Wed May 30, 2018 6:23 pm

Justin P wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm
I don't think anybody is asking for a full multitrack DAW, just a simple way to playback and capture on the same timeline between a few tracks. It's a common request because it's a common need for today's mastering engineers that use a hybrid of plugins and analog tools and want to do it all in one app on one machine which these days is totally feasible.

It's not about finding the funds for a multi-track DAW, I also own Pro Tools, REAPER (business license), Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, DSP Quattro, Triumph, and some others. A few have been purchased just to support development even though I can't really use them in my workflow today.

It's more about trying to help Steinberg make the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW. I personally don't mind using REAPER and WaveLab as a team but I'm sure many users want to keep it all in one app and as I've found from this forum and others, many people do as I do and use a multi-track DAW for the play/capture process and WaveLab only for the final touches, montage assembly, CD-Text/metadata, rendering final files etc.

Other than Sequoia/Samplitude and Pyramix, I don't know if anything that really comes close and those are PC only.

There is a clear void for the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW and nobody seems to be filling it.
+ 1

Great explanation, all good points. Montage input/output routing for record and monitor, A/B and other purposes, and basic track functions has been an issue since day 1 here, and has required very limited workarounds that are still far from ideal.

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Justin P » Wed May 30, 2018 7:34 pm

bob99 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:23 pm
Justin P wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm
I don't think anybody is asking for a full multitrack DAW, just a simple way to playback and capture on the same timeline between a few tracks. It's a common request because it's a common need for today's mastering engineers that use a hybrid of plugins and analog tools and want to do it all in one app on one machine which these days is totally feasible.

It's not about finding the funds for a multi-track DAW, I also own Pro Tools, REAPER (business license), Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, DSP Quattro, Triumph, and some others. A few have been purchased just to support development even though I can't really use them in my workflow today.

It's more about trying to help Steinberg make the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW. I personally don't mind using REAPER and WaveLab as a team but I'm sure many users want to keep it all in one app and as I've found from this forum and others, many people do as I do and use a multi-track DAW for the play/capture process and WaveLab only for the final touches, montage assembly, CD-Text/metadata, rendering final files etc.

Other than Sequoia/Samplitude and Pyramix, I don't know if anything that really comes close and those are PC only.

There is a clear void for the definitive cross-platform all in one mastering DAW and nobody seems to be filling it.
+ 1

Great explanation, all good points. Montage input/output routing for record and monitor, A/B and other purposes, and basic track functions has been an issue since day 1 here, and has required very limited workarounds that are still far from ideal.
Yeah, I should add that this is just one of the many things that needs to happen. Ability to route a track to more than one stereo output, toggle two different stereo inputs for those who use more than one D/A and A/D converter plus a raw mirrored output without any FX applied is also a big deal.

Basically, WaveLab is a ways off and for me, REAPER is WAY ahead in this regard so that's why I just don't use WaveLab for analog play/capture.

I remember when first got WaveLab to replace my Waveburner/Pro Tools combo I assumed I'd do it all in one app but after a day or two of trying that, I realized WaveLab wasn't great for the play/capture task and reverted back to Pro Tools (and now REAPER) for that part of the process.

It could be awesome but as years go by, it needs more and more work. Unless Steinberg plays to evolve this area majority, I wouldn't even care of they got rid of all the analog play/capture options and just focused on making it a solid "in the box" solution with better 3rd party plugin support...

However, getting way off track here.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Thu May 31, 2018 11:35 am

How about, if we are "adding things", four point editing (Source/Destination) like Sequoia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-j3jblSfQ.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by bob99 » Thu May 31, 2018 7:11 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:35 am
How about, if we are "adding things", four point editing (Source/Destination) like Sequoia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-j3jblSfQ.
I think that would require a lot more work and added programming than what's being asked for here. Source Destination editing requires grouping and ungrouping of tracks for Source and Destination, with transient In and Out points, and tracks whose Source and Destination timelines are independent in the same Montage. And it's generally paired with a comprehensive Crossfade editor with audition for each edit all the way down the line in the Montage (next/previous edit). I don't know anything about programming, but it sounds like a lot more work and added bloat to me, although it would be great to have. Reaper now includes a comprehensive crossfade editor with audition that includes most of what I remember from Sonic, although it's harder to work. No real independent track timelines for Source Destination in Reaper though. But maybe none of this really needs to involve significant bloat, including the Lane (track) sync recording requested. Reaper is not a big program, and it includes Lane (track) Recording and crossfade editor with audition.

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Thu May 31, 2018 11:11 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am
Could we PLEASE stop making request to turn WL into CUBASE? It is a mastering DAW and not a multi-track recording platform. This requests keep appearing more and more. Why mess up a perfectly good mastering DAW by putting in a bunch of multi-track junk. Surely if this is an important part of your operation you can find the funds to purchase a multi-track DAW. I just don't see the "logic" in these request (yes it is a pun). Now if we are talking pitch/catch yes that would be a nice addition to WL but it is also sound card dependent. Leave WL a mastering DAW...PLEASE!
Whoa buddy. Just asking for a feature that's included in almost every other mastering DAW. A mastering DAW should be able to capture an analog signal back into the same project. 2-Track capture. Don't see how this functionality would be a problem for anyone.

I am a long time WL/Steinberg user and make my living using this software. I don't see this request as out of the ordinary. If you don't have anything of importance to add to this thread I suggest moving on.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Rat » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:16 am

plyman wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm
Is there a way to compensate for the latency so the new recording aligns with the source?
I would support that as well. This was actually one of the very few features that I "missed" when I first migrated to WL years back.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:44 am

plyman wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:11 pm
Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am
Could we PLEASE stop making request to turn WL into CUBASE? It is a mastering DAW and not a multi-track recording platform. This requests keep appearing more and more. Why mess up a perfectly good mastering DAW by putting in a bunch of multi-track junk. Surely if this is an important part of your operation you can find the funds to purchase a multi-track DAW. I just don't see the "logic" in these request (yes it is a pun). Now if we are talking pitch/catch yes that would be a nice addition to WL but it is also sound card dependent. Leave WL a mastering DAW...PLEASE!
Whoa buddy. Just asking for a feature that's included in almost every other mastering DAW. A mastering DAW should be able to capture an analog signal back into the same project. 2-Track capture. Don't see how this functionality would be a problem for anyone.

I am a long time WL/Steinberg user and make my living using this software. I don't see this request as out of the ordinary. If you don't have anything of importance to add to this thread I suggest moving on.

Well "BUDDY" I have been with WL since version 1.6. Your request is one of a number of requests to make WL more of a multi track DAW. I too am a mastering engineer and yes it would be nice to have WL be able to do pitch and catch for external gear like my Weiss EQ1 MKII. To add multi track recording is not really necessary just the ability to open a recording window while playing back your stereo track in WL. It is also very sound card dependent.

I don't know if you know but this is a "give and take forum" and other people can share their views and I can state what I want without "moving on" as you have suggested. FWIW
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:15 pm

Justin P wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm
I don't think anybody is asking for a full multitrack DAW, just a simple way to playback and capture on the same timeline between a few tracks...
Wavelab already has this to some extent using the 'record at cursor' option for each track in the montage. Using this you can record the output of the Master Section to a single track in sync with the original.

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by Justin P » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:17 pm

stingray wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:15 pm
Justin P wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm
I don't think anybody is asking for a full multitrack DAW, just a simple way to playback and capture on the same timeline between a few tracks...
Wavelab already has this to some extent using the 'record at cursor' option for each track in the montage. Using this you can record the output of the Master Section to a single track in sync with the original.
Thanks. Maybe I'll test it some day but this is just one of the many things keeping from wanting to do the play/capture process in WaveLab instead of REAPER or a multi-track DAW.

Can't beat WaveLab for the montage layout and rendering final formats though.
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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by stingray » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:25 pm

plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:23 pm
stingray wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:17 pm
plyman wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm
Not looking for a workaround (I already know them), just asking for a feature.
How would you like that feature to work? Do you want tracks in the montage to have the function to record in a similar manner to traditional DAWs (Reaper, Pro Tools Cubendo)?
Yes...and record onto the track below.
Doesn't using 'record at cursor' on the montage tracks already do this?

This allows you to record whatever is coming out of the Master Section to the selected montage track (by choosing to record the playback signal in the Record Dialogue). As far as I know this remains in sync and aligned with the source (at least for ITB). I'm guessing you may have already tried this and you're looking for something more sophisticated but I'm not sure because you haven't explained what you're doing in detail... I haven't seen any specific reference to 'record at cursor' here. In any case, to answer the title of this thread... WL can already record on a track in the montage and you can effectively record from one (or mutiple tracks) to the target track depending on what you mute in the source tracks.

Maybe it would be a good idea to make 'record at cursor' more elaborate so, for example, the user could punch in and out and monitor more easily on the montage track without having to open the record dialogue (using buttons on the tracks, for example).

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Re: Feature Request:Lane (track) recording within Montage

Post by plyman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 am

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:44 am
plyman wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:11 pm
Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am
Could we PLEASE stop making request to turn WL into CUBASE? It is a mastering DAW and not a multi-track recording platform. This requests keep appearing more and more. Why mess up a perfectly good mastering DAW by putting in a bunch of multi-track junk. Surely if this is an important part of your operation you can find the funds to purchase a multi-track DAW. I just don't see the "logic" in these request (yes it is a pun). Now if we are talking pitch/catch yes that would be a nice addition to WL but it is also sound card dependent. Leave WL a mastering DAW...PLEASE!
Whoa buddy. Just asking for a feature that's included in almost every other mastering DAW. A mastering DAW should be able to capture an analog signal back into the same project. 2-Track capture. Don't see how this functionality would be a problem for anyone.

I am a long time WL/Steinberg user and make my living using this software. I don't see this request as out of the ordinary. If you don't have anything of importance to add to this thread I suggest moving on.

Well "BUDDY" I have been with WL since version 1.6. Your request is one of a number of requests to make WL more of a multi track DAW. I too am a mastering engineer and yes it would be nice to have WL be able to do pitch and catch for external gear like my Weiss EQ1 MKII. To add multi track recording is not really necessary just the ability to open a recording window while playing back your stereo track in WL. It is also very sound card dependent.

I don't know if you know but this is a "give and take forum" and other people can share their views and I can state what I want without "moving on" as you have suggested. FWIW
Again, I was simply asking for feature. Your rant about multi track DAW's and assumption that anyone asking for track recording in WL couldn't afford another DAW was not helpful. You're free to post whatever you want, but as the originator of this post I'm letting you know it wasn't helpful. On the interwebs I believe the call it trolling.

I understand I can open another instance/window in WL and record into it...that is part of my normal work flow. That's not what I was requesting.
Pete Lyman
Infrasonic Mastering
www.infrasonicsound.com

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