Can a cc121 be combined with ...

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TNM
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Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by TNM » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:36 am

unrelated question, can a cc121 be combined with something else for more fader control? Perhaps the softube console 1? (since cubase update is coming with full console 1 integration), or maybe a faderport 8?

I love the idea of the 121 as it's cheap and cheerful and is MADE for cubase. But I just wish they had a 4 or 8 fader version.

Hey, here's a question, how does the 121 work in combination with the dedicated cubase ipad control app?
Last edited by -steve- on Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: moved "unrelated question" to it's own thread.
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by shmihe » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:58 am

Why can't Steinberg just build an updated midi mix/controller with 8 motorized faders and everything else the CC121 has on it - same build quality too? There has to be more people out there wishing for this.


If not that, they could at least officially support Nektar/Behringer(X-Touch) for deeper integration.
I considered both the X-Touch and CC121, as well as the P1 - ended up with the P1 due to having Reason 10 as my other DAW.

Either way, the only choices at the lower price ranges end up to be a compromise somehow. I would have loved to have motorized faders, but the Nektar P1 just covered so much more ground in 2 DAWS. I've only had it for one week, and I'm still learning what it can and cannot do. I still may end up switching to the Behringer X-Touch, but the P1 does work very well at what it CAN do.

THE CC121 is not exactly cheap @ brand new prices. I was very near willing to pay for such a build quality, and the fact that Steinberg makes it just for their own DAW.

I am very interested to see what Nektar comes out with for the next generation of controller, and I still have hopes that they will continue releasing VST/RE maps and updates for the P1 (Cubase and Reason).

Jog/shuttle and mouse hover for quick assignment controls would be a must. Independent channel solo, record/arm, mute buttons too (ahem, Nektar). Independent channel meters and scribbles would also be great.

I honestly don't know what you would combine the cc121 with, that would work well. Believe me, I've gone through the past 2 months considering all combinations and all DAW mix controller. More devices, means more clutter, and more troubleshooting and setup.

For just Cubase, I swear, just an 8 motorized fader (with a master) cc121 type controller would be great. Add just the scribbles/meters, and be done.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:32 am

How much would you be willing to pay for it?
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by shmihe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:55 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:32 am
How much would you be willing to pay for it?
Less than $1000 for sure. If Behringer, PreSonus, Icon can sell decent quality motorized hardware for under that, Steinberg/Yamaha could as well.

I would imagine that it could help sell Cubase on its own, and/or be packaged with Cubase Pro (or discounted for current Cubase Pro owners).

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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by shmihe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Maybe Steinberg could partner with Softube to make a new Console 2 that includes transport/actual faders/additional functions and extra VSTs control?

The Faderport 8 sounds like a decent mix controller according to reviews. Individual channel visual metering (not in scribble strip) and a better nudge/jog wheel could have made it a great one. It also needs to have the 9th master fader imo. I have to admit, it is a very well laid-out controller though as is.

Again, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of having both the cc121 and the faderport together.

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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 pm

shmihe wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:55 pm
MattiasNYC wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:32 am
How much would you be willing to pay for it?
Less than $1000 for sure. If Behringer, PreSonus, Icon can sell decent quality motorized hardware for under that, Steinberg/Yamaha could as well.

I would imagine that it could help sell Cubase on its own, and/or be packaged with Cubase Pro (or discounted for current Cubase Pro owners).
Ok, but as has been said before; at this point you're looking at:

- "center" control section (cc 121) at a current price of $400 roughly
- 8 motorized touch sensitive quality faders, each with;
--- mute, solo, record, panning, meters, scribble screen

IF Steinberg released something like that, then everyeone would ask for an extender as well, which is reasonable. The quality of both would have to be relatively high.

The first question to consider is this:

How would this be practically different from a Nuage controller?

It's an important question in understanding why Steinberg might not want to release what you ask for. Because it seems like the proposed device is roughly 30-40% of what two combined Nuage controllers are (the mix and center section), which in turn means a price clearly above what you're asking for. If Steinberg released a quality device at under $1,000, what would that do to the Nuage market given that the difference is not that big? I think it would mean Nuage prices would have to drop, or this device would have to be either more expensive or lower quality/fewer features.....
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by shmihe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:06 pm

I think we are talking about two entirely different target/markets here.

The average bedroom/basement/garage/home/hobbyist/low budget music producer is not going to be using Nuage. I see refurbished furniture for Nuage systems starting at over $6000.

There are obviously already 8 channel mix controllers on the market that do sell.

Behringer does sell X-Touch Compact and a dedicated extender too, so, obviously there must be a market for similar devices as well. PreSonus has the 16 channel FaderPort @ $1000. Personally, my space is limited, and I am okay with the channel bank switch method - for more than 8 channels.

Anyhow, I highly doubt that Yamaha/Steinberg would shoot themselves in the foot by having a (low to mid-level market) 8 channel/9 fader DAW mixer/controller device.

Steinberg have apparently not updated the CC121 for quite some time now. One would at least think that it would be matched to the newest Cubase 9.5 and some of it's newer features.

I am just going to keep hoping that Steinberg will renew support for the CC121 and build a bigger and better version of it in the near future.

I, like the original poster in this thread, had very nearly bought the CC121. I truly wanted to believe that that would be the ultimate controller for Cubase.

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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:09 pm

shmihe wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:06 pm
I think we are talking about two entirely different target/markets here.

The average bedroom/basement/garage/home/hobbyist/low budget music producer is not going to be using Nuage. I see refurbished furniture for Nuage systems starting at over $6000.
No, we're talking about the same market, but you might be missing my point.

The "high-end" market that gets Nuendo would get a cheaper controller if it does almost exactly the same thing at a tenth of the cost. Look:
shmihe wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:06 pm
There are obviously already 8 channel mix controllers on the market that do sell.

Behringer does sell X-Touch Compact and a dedicated extender too, so, obviously there must be a market for similar devices as well. PreSonus has the 16 channel FaderPort @ $1000. Personally, my space is limited, and I am okay with the channel bank switch method - for more than 8 channels.

Anyhow, I highly doubt that Yamaha/Steinberg would shoot themselves in the foot by having a (low to mid-level market) 8 channel/9 fader DAW mixer/controller device.
See, that's my point; Steinberg would be possibly shooting themselves in the foot.

I regularly work in studios in NY where the controllers are Mackie MCU or Avid Artist series. These are studios mainly for non-film work, so TV (broadcast), streaming etc. But they are professional commercial facilities with full client servies, 5.1 setups, treated rooms etc, with shows going on all major US networks. Why would they pick these cheap controllers over even an Avid s3? Because they save money.

So, if Steinberg offered an expandable 8-channel + cc121 of good quality that would eat a part of the market that Nuage currently (potentially) occupies. That's my guess. And I'm also guessing that at over 10,000 dollars the profit margin is way higher on a Nuage unit than they'd get on a sub-1k dollar 8 channel unit. They'd have to sell 10 times more of the smaller ones to make the same amount of money even if they had the same profit margin.

But hey, I 100% agree with you and everyone else. What I would like to see is a controller with:

- 8 motorized touch sensitive high quality faders (i.e. smooth+silent)
- basic buttons for each channel, i.e. rec/mute/solo/select/focus/automation type
- a center section with;
Automation mode selection
Basic functions like channel/bank up/down, etc
Control Room controls
A set of knobs matching channel-strip EQ
A set of knobs matching channel-strip dynamics
A set of knobs for plugins, or a way to assign the other knobs to plugins
Transport buttons
Jog / Shuttle (freely re-assignable to other functions like zoom, nudge etc)
- an extender with 8 more channels

And it'd have to look like it belonged in a real commercial studio, not a hobbyists basement.
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:12 pm

PS:

I get that some people say they're fine with 8 channels of faders, but look at what happened with the Behringer X-touch: The "hobby" market loved the price of the unit but immediately asked for more faders. Like, right away. And Behringer complied. Behringer is the type of company that can produce those things quickly and cheaply and are willing to do so (because they "rip-off" existing tech rather than design completely from scratch) so they did. Users loved it.

So even if we get what we want but only 8 channels users will start asking for more channels right away.....
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Re: Can a cc121 be combined with ...

Post by WilliamTCook » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:53 am

Let me just say, Nuage support is pretty terrible as far as them updating it and listening to their user base on features. Still no support for 16 insert slots with 9.5. When you flip knobs to fader, the labels disappear after a few seconds, and you're left with your track names instead of what you've mapped until you touch a fader. There's no meter db marking in channel mode, no way to see your gain structure when you're editing a plugin, etc. The method of knob mapping that's in their literature does not work. You have to manually open remote editor to map your plugins. Really tedious. All of these things multiple people have complained about for at least a year since I've owned it. There does not seem to be any line of communication between users and Yamaha Japan, next to nothing their reps can do other than forward our emails to them. There's no Nuage specific forum for users to communicate with each other or with Yamaha. It's really baffling and frustrating given how expensive the controller is.

In short, I don't think they have a team that could tackle what you're suggesting, and I don't have confidence that they would make the device their users would want. I too with they would open up on the software side so 3rd party controllers could be integrated without using the limited Mackie and Hui. I guess your best option is the Avid range of faders with their ability to run eucon.

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