[CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Use this forum for an overview of issues and to report new ones.
noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

[CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:23 pm

Original Cubase 8 thread here - viewtopic.php?f=229&t=77021&p=672123#p672123 .

1. When loading a project (or using a template) with disabled instrument tracks, a pop up window appears on launch asking if you want to delete the disconnected multi outs. Would be good to never have to see this window (as a one time "never show this again").

2 (original problem resolved)

3. Confused multi tracks after re-opening a disabled track from a template. This is the reason I still can't routinely use multi-out disabled tracks. This is what I got enabling Superior Drummer 3 today, after yesterday saving a brand new template:

Image

All the outputs except output 1 are mysteriously duplicated, and audio passes through both. This kind of behaviour common to seemingly all of my multi-out plugins.
Last edited by noiseboyuk on Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

Larioso
Member
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:18 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by Larioso » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:39 pm

I reported this dec 2015 to Steinberg(yes, 2015) - but they wasted the ticket out in nowhere. Just does not exist - even though I have initial confirmation with title header etc. I have haunted Steinberg with this the last month - have to look up what happend - this will decide my future with Steinberg alltogether. I put many hours troubleshooting this and provided successful track archive and failed one. This is no way to treat customers.

I had that when saving to archive from a arbitrary track number in a project - I got that stuff, outputs all mixed up in order and also the dialog asking to delete tracks. So here I used maybe track 13, 18 and 25 or similar - and it becomes a mess when trying to load later. I did a folder with midi track and SD2 instrument track with 7 stereo outs and a bus.

Workaround was to redo saving to archive from a blank project, so SD2 and 7 outs and a bus for those were the only ones in that project.
That seemed to work.

If to do with tracks consequtive or not, don't know.
So if disabled has the same problem as not starting at track 1 or something similar.
Windows 7 Pro - Intel i7-860 2.8GHz 16 GB - Cubase Pro 9.5 latest - RME HDSP 9632 + AI4S + Audient ASP 800 - Nvidia GT730

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by noiseboyuk » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:52 pm

Thanks for confirming, Larioso. You don't have a reliable step-by-step to induce a fault, do you? I've found it extremely erratic, but it would be nice to get it down to an A, B, C to increase the chances of Steinberg ever addressing it.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

Larioso
Member
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:18 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by Larioso » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:54 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:52 pm
Thanks for confirming, Larioso. You don't have a reliable step-by-step to induce a fault, do you? I've found it extremely erratic, but it would be nice to get it down to an A, B, C to increase the chances of Steinberg ever addressing it.
I'm sorry, I don't have exact steps I did, I did not backup my text to bug report ticket I tried post to Steinberg.

I think, if you have an archive you import from with steps described - and if you, like me, find that doing a prepare of SD another way and make archive that works - would be good help for Steinberg.

I still have my two - one archive that works and one that does not - exat same setup - but I still have SD2. You have newer SD3.
I'll attache those two here below - and it might be helpful if scanned by Steinberg officials.
It's just the Avatar default kit and rerouted 7 outs with various bleeds summed to separate faders - so think anybody with SD2 can recreate it.
One will get completely altered order of outs - and also give error dialogs about deleting tracks - and the other just do what it's supposed to.

Resemblance I see with our two outcomes are that you have disabled tracks - and I have used arbitrary tracks - when saving archive.
So might be something to do with that stuff are not in order and enabled.


I made use of my stuff as workarounds, so never looked further into this. Just being aware not saving archive from any project where tracks are spread out. I use archive strickly as track templates. It saves 10-15 minutes setup everytime I use this SD template as an example. Just a bore to redo these things and anming and routing everything.
Attachments
CPArchiveBug.zip
One working, one not, SuperiorDrummer2 archive
template
(84.77 KiB) Downloaded 147 times
Windows 7 Pro - Intel i7-860 2.8GHz 16 GB - Cubase Pro 9.5 latest - RME HDSP 9632 + AI4S + Audient ASP 800 - Nvidia GT730

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:44 am

While Steinberg continue to ignore us Lariaoso, I did some tests to see if I can get reproducible steps. So far, I've not been able to break it starting with a blank project. As a glimmer of hope, I've created a completely new test template using a fair few track archives, where I've saved only well behaved tracks. So far, everything is behaving well having saved everything disabled as a template, opened as a new project and re-enabled.

Is it possible that our problems are related to corrupted projects / templates? Certainly in Pro Tools this kind of thing happens, and can often be fixed by loading all the tracks from the corrupted project into a new blank one. I'll be road testing this theory further in the coming days, will report what I find of course.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

Larioso
Member
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:18 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by Larioso » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:13 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:44 am
Is it possible that our problems are related to corrupted projects / templates? Certainly in Pro Tools this kind of thing happens, and can often be fixed by loading all the tracks from the corrupted project into a new blank one. I'll be road testing this theory further in the coming days, will report what I find of course.
Possible I guess, but not likely as I see it.
Everything works fine in original project - and I think saving to archive or reading from archive mess things up.

As I recall my error dialogs to remove tracks involved the extra outputs from multiout instrument - which is basically automation only tracks.
They never contain audio themselves.

I tried to have a peek inside xml files, but these are really hard to trace.
And even as no automation was used, in my case, there were still massive amounts of info regarding automation.
Expertise like developers need to look at those two I provided and get an idea what goes wrong.

Hopefully you can also have example of something that works and something that fails.
Will be interesting to see what you discover.

I succeded in making templates for biggest timesavers for me, so did not look any further into this.
But will make an effort again, not being alone in this search.

At some point one can only hope Steinberg officials will chime in down the line and it gets a bug report ticket number or something.
It would certainly help make up for the disappointment just throwing away reports and efforts we made before.
I'm sure this waste hours and hours for users out there getting strange anomalies using archives.
Windows 7 Pro - Intel i7-860 2.8GHz 16 GB - Cubase Pro 9.5 latest - RME HDSP 9632 + AI4S + Audient ASP 800 - Nvidia GT730

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:42 am

It's a slippery thing, that's for sure. I've been getting my breakages without using archives at all - only relatively recently have I used them for anything other than a bunch of audio tracks, and yet I've been having these problems for years. But like you my issues are entirely related to multi-out instrument tracks.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:15 am

...yeah, things started breaking again. Really hard to say what triggers it, just after building a new template for a while, it all starts falling apart.

Steinberg, please look into this. Here's two track archvies for Omnisphere - 1 instrument track, 7 midi, all outputs activated. This one opens cleanly

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yqv2ynq6xc64 ... g.xml?dl=0

This one opens broken:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/os8qw9q9v0s7k ... n.xml?dl=0

Here's what I see when opening the broken version:

Image

(with another 6 midi tracks below which are fine). The output order is messed up, and there are duplicates of G and H (also without their colour info). This archive loaded fine yesterday, and is broken for me today loading into a blank project.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:13 pm

I've just loaded the broken XML into a blank project Cubase 8.5.2 on the MacBook Pro, and I can confirm this is broken here too.

Steinberg please respond.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:20 pm

Steinberg please respond. Still a mess.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:35 pm

...and still a mess.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

User avatar
Raphie
Senior Member
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:20 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by Raphie » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:54 pm

Just out of curiousity, these are projects created on older versions of cubase?
Best way to resolve these issues is to rebuild from scratch in 9
Unfortunately older version templates sometimes just go bonkers
Did you log a ticket? Or followed the bug report procedure?
Analogue Mastering
MSI raider X299 - Intel i9 7940 - MSI Gaming X 1070GTX 8GB - OCZ RD400 nvme SSD - 16GB DDR4-3000
Windows 10 x64 up to date - Cubase Pro 9.5x - Wavelab Pro 9.5x
RME MadiFX and racks full of outboard

Everything you need to know about remote control editors

User avatar
Home Studio 87
Member
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by Home Studio 87 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:40 pm

Raphie wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:54 pm
Just out of curiousity, these are projects created on older versions of cubase?
Best way to resolve these issues is to rebuild from scratch in 9
Unfortunately older version templates sometimes just go bonkers
Did you log a ticket? Or followed the bug report procedure?
even with a "fresh" Cubase 9 project....... ;)
Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI / Intel Corei7 6800k / 32 Go DDR4 / 4x SSD / Win 10 Pro x64 / UAD Apollo Twin USB / UAD2 Satellite Octo USB / UAD2 Octo PCIe / Cubase Pro 10 / VEP6 / D-Touch Cubase / Console 1 / 24 Ch X-Touch / CMC Controllers / iPad 2&3 Lemur / Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2 /

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:38 pm

Raphie - yes, even with a fresh Cubase 9 project. Totally starting from scratch.

I've followed the bug report procedure as much as possible, but we've found it impossible to find the exact set of things that screw it all up. It just happens. Stuff that works one day are screwed the next. But I'm all ears for any advice on how to further escalate it with Steinberg, perhaps a support ticket pointing to this thread?
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

lokotus
Junior Member
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:12 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by lokotus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 pm

have sent this problem too steinberg many month ago with a description to reporudce it and a zip project file. No response. I guess they know about it ... seems hard for them to fix though... Is CAN-13042 the official number issue that was assigned to this problem ?

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:43 pm

lokotus wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 pm
is CAN-13042 the official number issue that was assigned to this problem ?
Yes. It's been pretty tortuous getting this far, but as of last week we finally have a case number, and the devs are finally on it.

I'd been getting increasingly depressed about it. Track Archives and Disabled Tracks are the two tools I want to build my new template around, but both are so buggy as to make the experience tortuous. Here's hoping this turns the corner.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

kavinsky
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:42 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by kavinsky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:43 am

hey guys, is there still no workaround???
jesus, I've just upgraded to C9.5 from 8.5 mainly in hopes this was resolved since 3 years have passed
and no, its still broken

once you disable/reenable your multiout track in a big project - all the outputs get messed up, doubled or renamed to SYNTH tracks, plus theres a bunch of inactive original tracks you need to remove.
the original naming structure disappears as well as the order of the tracks which makes it super confusing. plus there are these doubles that clutter the hell of the project
same when you're importing a multiout track from another project - it all goes to crap, which makes it really annoying!
Image

Image

we really need to get their attention to this otherwise they will never fix this SO OBVIOUSLY BROKEN thing
Seriously, Steinberg, what the hell?! 3 years! I'm speechless
PLEASE RESPOND ASAP!!!
STEINBERG PLEASE FIX [CAN-13042] !!!

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:05 pm

Depressing, isn't it? My daily reality, and I do share your incredulity. I've heard whispers that Steinberg are listening, but we'd all love to hear something direct from them.

As it is, I've not updated to 9.5 because I knew nothing had been done - I'll be jumping all over 10 if they've spent some time on this whole area of track management.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

kavinsky
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:42 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by kavinsky » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:11 pm

I'd be keen to assist in hunting down the issue. Sometimes it works, I can even transfer the tracks successfully in some cases, but with other projects its impossible.
I wonder if its windows only? It could be related to ram/cpu load
But I can actually see that this would happen beforehand. If you open another project and leave it inactive, you can see the outputs greyed out - that means they are already messed up when you drop the track into project

the fact that a simple multiout track without any processing can be moved around/disabled without any problems means that it can be fixed.
possibly quite easily

edit
OK I'have just reproduced it
a blank project with 1 kontakt instance and a simple multiout instrument - works fine, can be dropped into another project in integrity

but then I duplicated it so its 10 kontakt instances and there you go - same old mess when trying to transfer it

so the only workaround I can imagine would be to make a single project file for a few instruments
and then you'll have to never disable them in the main project. just deleting and adding them from those templates again if needed
its not any less painful though
or just go through the *flower* disabling/enabling them, deleting those dummy tracks and renaming everything back manually. even thinking about it makes my blood boil
STEINBERG PLEASE FIX [CAN-13042] !!!

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:01 pm

Sounds like good detective work there. I hope Steinberg are (a long way) ahead of you, it is insane that these bugs have been around for 3 years.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

kavinsky
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:42 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by kavinsky » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:31 am

I assume not many people bother using those?
although its kinda strange. I want to have all my mics or instruments laid out separately at all times
but I suppose many professionals do use it like this, big composers and the likes (although they probably have enough DSP with slaves and VEpro so they are not using disabled/transferred tracks inside Cubase)
But possibly the problem is absent in MacOS
STEINBERG PLEASE FIX [CAN-13042] !!!

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:46 am

I've just found a whole new problem with this. I'd muted a Superior Drummer track to export a stem. To be embarrassment, a clip later down the timeline played on this muted track. When I expanded out to look at what was going on, I found none of the individual outs muted, just the parent tack. The first clip didn't play, however the 2nd did. Why? Who knows. Further muting that individual out muted both clips.

So due warning - multi out instrument tracks may be more than just the visual scrambling and duplicated outs, it may be screwing up other stuff under the hood too. What a mess.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

kavinsky
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:42 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by kavinsky » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:12 am

I've experienced the same thing you are describing

Sometimes there are complete out of place tracks being created
sometimes other multiout instruments get mixed in to a random track outs
and when you delete those unwanted tracks the project crashes.
also, new to 9.5
whenever I add a few multiout tracks into a project, I got spikes and weird playback skips. never experienced that in 8.5
overall performance in the projects with those multiout tracks became a lot worse.
I can barely run 5 instances, which is odd

Its a headache.
I just threw a 110$ on the upgrade and it got way worse than it was in 8.5
Is there a way to make them fix this somehow? Calling them everyday etc?
Unsatisfied is a very light word to describe it.
and it drags and drags for years

its very easy to reproduce though. Maybe one of us should make a video?
At the very least we need a workaround or a hotfix that partially solves it for the time being
just to be able to work
STEINBERG PLEASE FIX [CAN-13042] !!!

noiseboyuk
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by noiseboyuk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:42 pm

Anything and everything really. I've spent some time with them in support, got it logged but nothing else other than that. I understand ringing tends to be more fruitful than online support, so if anyone did that it can't hurt - would be great to report back here too.
Win 10 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, 2x GT610, RME Babyface, Cubase 9.01, PT 12HD
Macbook Pro 2015, 2.8ghz i7, 16gb RAM

http://www.guyrowland.co.uk

kavinsky
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:42 pm
Contact:

Re: [CAN-13042] Multi out instrument tracks still broken after disabling PLEASE RESPOND STEINBERG

Post by kavinsky » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:41 am

Have you tried hosting those tracks inside vepro?
Thats the only solution I can think of but its a hassle and requers an additional purchase
STEINBERG PLEASE FIX [CAN-13042] !!!

Post Reply

Return to “Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest