[BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

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[BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:08 pm

Serious Bug - Recording the MIDI OUT and MIDI routing from VSTi and between VSTis do not work in Cubase 6!

Steps to reproduce:
- Open Empty project
- Add Instrument / VST Rack track (does not matter)
- Add a VSTi that sends out any MIDI signal (I used z3ta+ to send out MIDI notes using the virtual ribbon controller, but can be anything else that generates MIDI signal)
- Start Record
- Triggering notes (using the virtual ribbon controller) on z3ta+ generates notes
Result: NOTHING is recorded!
Expected results: MIDI Notes should be recorded!

Also checked - the internal MIDI routing between tracks do not work at all.
Steps:
- Set Prologue MIDI Input to z3ta MIDI OUT
- Start Record
- Trigger notes in z3ta+
- Nothing is recorded

Repeated both tests in REAPER DAW (not with Prologue, but with a Synth1) - they work like a charm for the first time!

A very basic (and needed) functionality in Cubase 6 seems to be corrupt.

It worked in Cubase 4! Super-annoying......

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JHP
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by JHP » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:10 am

Your repro is not vary detailed.
You are recording the MIDI out of a VSTi to another MIDI track right?
Are you using Cubase 6 64bit and Z3ta 32bit?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:25 pm

I am on the 32-bit Cubase 6.0.2 (skipped the 6.0.3 yet) on Windows 7, also latest version z3ta+ 1.5.3 - 32-bit.

My first example was to record MIDI notes to the SAME MIDI channel where the VSTi is inserted (using the virtual ribbon controller that generates MIDI notes).
The second example was to record the MIDI notes to a DIFFERENT MIDI channel (routing from one MIDI channel to the next).

This setup used to work on Cubase 4 (used it many times).

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:53 pm

Can anyone else replicate this issue using any VSTi that sends out MIDI data?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by vic_france » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:55 am

(just to be clear)..
Have you record-enabled a (2nd) MIDI track, whose input is the MIDI output from the z3ta? (it should be at the bottom of that MIDI track's dropdown input menu)
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by C.LYDE » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:58 pm

I have managed to record midi data quite successfully from Groove Agent 2.. so I'm not sure it's a "BUG" with Cubase - possibly the VSTi in question?
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:38 am

Yes, I record-enabled the 2nd track, the MIDI Input of this track is set to "z3ta+ - Midi Out", but still nothing is recorded.

I also tried recording MIDI from Groove Agent One. Inserted it into an Instrument track, loaded a kit, and started MIDI recording. Pressed some pad triggers several time while recording... but nothing is recorded.

Maybe a setting somewhere?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by vic_france » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:12 pm

Bacizone wrote:Yes, I record-enabled the 2nd track, the MIDI Input of this track is set to "z3ta+ - Midi Out", but still nothing is recorded.
You say that doing exactly the same thing in Cubase 4 works o.k.?
I also tried recording MIDI from Groove Agent One. Inserted it into an Instrument track, loaded a kit, and started MIDI recording. Pressed some pad triggers several time while recording... but nothing is recorded.
Maybe a setting somewhere?
That's something completely different.. Groove Agent One doesn't transmit MIDI data ;).

I am on Mac here, but all the VSTis I have here that do transmit MIDI data are sending the data correctly into Cubase 6. (32-bit versions.. VST-Bridged instruments do not transmit MIDI in 64-bit mode)

(btw, I miswrote something earlier :oops: )...
Have you record-enabled a (2nd) MIDI track, whose input is the MIDI output from the z3ta? (it should be at the bottom of that MIDI track's dropdown input menu)
Not at the bottom of the menu, but, near the top ;)
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:39 pm

vic_france wrote:
Bacizone wrote:Yes, I record-enabled the 2nd track, the MIDI Input of this track is set to "z3ta+ - Midi Out", but still nothing is recorded.
You say that doing exactly the same thing in Cubase 4 works o.k.?

Yes.
I also tried recording MIDI from Groove Agent One. Inserted it into an Instrument track, loaded a kit, and started MIDI recording. Pressed some pad triggers several time while recording... but nothing is recorded.
Maybe a setting somewhere?
That's something completely different.. Groove Agent One doesn't transmit MIDI data ;).

Yes, but that's why I choose z3ta+ - it does send in other apps, like Reaper3

Not at the bottom of the menu, but, near the top ;)
Yes, I noticed.

MIDI routing within Cubase 4 worked as it should, but it does not do now.

Any idea?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by JHP » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:14 pm

Bacizone wrote:Can anyone else replicate this issue using any VSTi that sends out MIDI data?
No I could not reproduce the issue using any VSTi that sendy midi out. Z3ta+ I do not have at hand.
Do you have a more precise repro?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:46 pm

Is there any Steinberg branded VST instrument in Cubase 6 that sends out MIDI (cc, notes, whatever) ?

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Video update showing the issue

Post by Bacizone » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:56 pm

Made a short video showing the problem:
http://youtu.be/oytJ11raCVI

Sorry, this video has NO SOUND, but you'll understand it hopefully.

The z3ta+ is able to send out MIDI notes from its ribbon controller (the same you had a MIDI keyboard).

• Reaper 3 records it perfectly. Cubase 6 does not.
• Also MIDI routing between VSTi Rack slots does not seem to be working in C6 - z3ta+ does not able to send the MIDI notes to FM8 in this example.
• MIDI Monitor does not show incoming (routed) MIDI notes from z3ta.

All these used to work in Cubase 4.

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by orchetect » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:50 pm

You're right, that's weird. I tried FM8, rigged it up to a MIDI track record-armed and there's no MIDI data coming out.
Steffan Andrews | Composer for Film/TV | Custom iPad control surface developer | website | imdb
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by JHP » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:43 am

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You have to set the MIDI out of the VSTi as input of the MIDI track.
The following gif shows how to do it correctly record the MIDI out of a VSTi into a MIDI track:
RecordinMIDIOutOfVSTi.gif
(24.84 MiB) Not downloaded yet


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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by vic_france » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:18 pm

orchetect wrote:You're right, that's weird. I tried FM8, rigged it up to a MIDI track record-armed and there's no MIDI data coming out.
I have never succeeded in getting MIDI out of FM8 (in any version of Cubase). Would seem to me that this problem is plugin-specific.. All the other MIDI Out-capable plugins that I have work fine here.
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Hippo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:33 pm

AFAIK there is no midi out from the FM8, it impliments a midi out port as per the vst spec but it is never used by the instrument.
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:21 pm

Most VSTi just receives MIDI messages but do not send, including FM8. This seems to be normal.
My approach here just tried to test the MIDI routing between MIDI tracks, (z3ta driving the FM8) which should work but it does not.

z3ta+ is a VSTi that can send MIDI out. The reason I choose it because its simplicity for testing alone, just to check the MIDI routing! I noticed the problem originally at a Reaktor instrument (which generates MIDI data and routes these to other VST instruments) where MIDI routing should have worked, but it did not. Then I could recreate the phenomenon it in z3ta as well.... so the problem still exists! And the Reaktor stuff is working well in Reaper...

My video show that by clicking on the virtual ribbon controlller it sends out MIDI that Reaper records, Cubase 6 neglects. This is also clear.

JHP's video demonstrated something similar, but there was a dedicated function which allows GA3 to send the MIDI Out to "Live to Host", so this one may be a different scenario.

I am coming from Cubase 4 and this feature worked perfectly without the need of any special setting on the VSTi. For me it seems that again a feature seems to be dropped without any announcement, as the underlying engine/code has been improved...

May I ask you JHP to report this issue for developers?

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Hippo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:38 pm

According to a brief visit to the cakewalk forum this has not worked even in Sonar for a long time with the z3ta due to the use in the plugin of a very old Direct X midi out protocol which is no longer supported in many hosts.

You are wasting your time here it, is to cakewalk you need to turn to to get the problem corrected

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Bacizone » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:18 pm

Thanks for the reply, but as I mentioned before, I can not get MIDI out from Reaktor as well.

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Hippo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:51 pm

No problem at all here with reaktor or any NI plugin that uses midi out.
What version are you using?
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by orchetect » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:16 pm

Hippo wrote:AFAIK there is no midi out from the FM8, it impliments a midi out port as per the vst spec but it is never used by the instrument.
Hippo
That's very misleading and confusing then. I think in the VST SDK there is one MIDI out implemented by default (from my days foraging through the SDK). It's basically just a dummy routine as part of the development template. I think most developers don't bother taking it out.
Steffan Andrews | Composer for Film/TV | Custom iPad control surface developer | website | imdb
DAW: Mac Pro 6,1 (trashcan) 3.5GHz 6-core 64GB RAM, 4TB SSD, macOS 10.13.6, Cubase Pro 10.0.15 beta1, Dorico 2.1
Converters/Monitoring: UA Apollo Duo Thunderbolt x 2, Apollo 16 Thunderbolt, Focal Twin6/Sub6
Gear: Vertigo VSM-2, Pultec EQM-1S3 pair, Manley Massive Passive, Neve Portico II Master Buss Processor, Manley ELOP, Manley Nu Mu, API 2500, Smart C2, Dangerous Compressor, Millennia STT-1 & HV-3C, Aurora GTQ2 x 2, Manley Core, Neumann M149 / U87ai / TLM170R pair / KM184 mt, Schoeps CMC64 stereo pair, Gefell UM70S, AT5040 & AT5045, Yamaha CP33, 5 iPads running custom DAW control surface software

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Hippo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:01 pm

I agree, if you dont use it take it out but NI never did in any VSTI AFAIK and not taking it out if unused does not break the rules.

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by vic_france » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:01 pm

orchetect wrote:
Hippo wrote:AFAIK there is no midi out from the FM8, it impliments a midi out port as per the vst spec but it is never used by the instrument.
Hippo
That's very misleading and confusing then. I think in the VST SDK there is one MIDI out implemented by default (from my days foraging through the SDK). It's basically just a dummy routine as part of the development template. I think most developers don't bother taking it out.
In the FM8 doc, there is a very short paragraph about being able to use the MIDI output for feedback when using hardware remotes (but the option seems only available for the standalone version). Not having such a feedback-capable hardware device, I have no idea if it actually works or not :P.
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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by Hippo » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:06 am

It does, just tried it.

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Re: [BUG]: Recording the MIDI OUT from VSTi does not work!

Post by vic_france » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:30 pm

Hippo wrote:It does, just tried it.

Hippo
Ah! Cool :)
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