Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 installed

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Floris
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Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 installed

Post by Floris » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:06 pm

This is a weird one...
I am setting up a new system, Windows 10 Pro. Installed most of my plugins and Cubase Pro 9. Everything worked so far.
BUT! when I install Ableton Live 9, Cubase crashes everytime when I exit it.
Uninstalling Ableton makes the problem go away, but that is obviously not a preferred solution...
Anyone know whats going on?
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:49 pm

I had the same problem and tracked it down to abletons rewire plug in in the users propellorheads folder. Delete and Cubase exits as it should. Launch ableton and it will install the plug again.

Neither company is interested in dealing with it and point to each other.

Been there done that.
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

fretthefret
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by fretthefret » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:43 am

Definitely a weird one!
I have Cpro9.0.1 installed alongside the latest versions of Ableton Live Suite (9.7.1) and FL Studio and have no issues working on a project in both and in Cubase and exiting without a crash.
I am also on Windows 10 pro (anniversary) 64 bit.
You probably already have done so, but if not, check that you have the latest versions of all software and hardware drivers installed.
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, FL Studio 20, Ableton Live Suite 10, Harrison Mixbus 32c, UAD Apollo x series, UR28m, SSL, Native Instruments Komplete ultimate, NI Maschine Studio, Xfer Records Serum, Lennar Digital Sylenth1, reFx Nexus2, Reveal Sound Spire, FabFilter, Soundtoys, Lexicon PCM, Sonarworks, Slate Digital, Izotope, Brainworx, SPL, Waves, Cableguys, Cytomic, MeldaProductions, AOM, IK Multimedia, SynchroArts Revoice Pro, DDMF, Boz Digital, Antares Autotune, a bunch of other obscure stuff, TBs of samples, too much hardware to list... PC Windows 10 Pro 1803 64bit, i7-5960x (8 core), Asus x99 Deluxe ii, GeForce 1070 strix, Fractal Design Silent RL2 case, Noctua NH-d15s, 64 GB DDR4 g,Skillz Trident Z 3200 RAM, 512gb Samsung 950 m.2, 3TB segate Ironwolf NAS HDD, 4TB WDRed, 2TB WD Black, Laptop: MSI Ghost pro GS60 6QE i7-6700 Skylake Win 10 64bit, Storage: 32 TB QNAP NAS Raid 50, 12 TB QNAP RAID 1

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:30 am

thanks for the replies!

I do have the latest version of both programs and my drivers are up to date...
Tomorrow I'll try and see if deleting the rewire plugin works for me. Would be a fiddly workaround, but if it works I can at least get stuff done.

I contacted Steinberg and Ableton support, let's see what they come up with.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:35 am

Please feedback if it works or not.

I wish ableton had the option of not being rewire and not automatically installing the rewire plug.
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:15 pm

Yes, deleting

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Propellerhead Software\ReWire

causes Cubase to shutdown correctly again....


so, it seems that cubase cannot deal with the rewire.dll that ableton live automatically installs...
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:59 pm

I wonder if this is the famous cause for the Cubase crash on exit?

FYI, selecting Save before close reduces the risk of crash with the rewire plug in place. Also, using File menu to close the program is better
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:35 pm

thanks for the tips

I hope a solution is coming soon. It's weird that others (fretthefret) don't have this problem...
Anyway, for now I'll just refrain from using rewire in Cubase and delete the rewire.dll everytime I close out Ableton Live.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

fretthefret
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by fretthefret » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:41 pm

It is definitely weird floris!
I did have a similar problem (crashing on exit when opening a blank project and NOT saving then closing the project and exiting Cubase = crash) under the first cpro version 9.
However, the only thing I can think of that I did differently under 9.0.1 was leave the mediabay open all night to scan my many TB's of samples and projects.
The crash problem did not occur after and since.
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, FL Studio 20, Ableton Live Suite 10, Harrison Mixbus 32c, UAD Apollo x series, UR28m, SSL, Native Instruments Komplete ultimate, NI Maschine Studio, Xfer Records Serum, Lennar Digital Sylenth1, reFx Nexus2, Reveal Sound Spire, FabFilter, Soundtoys, Lexicon PCM, Sonarworks, Slate Digital, Izotope, Brainworx, SPL, Waves, Cableguys, Cytomic, MeldaProductions, AOM, IK Multimedia, SynchroArts Revoice Pro, DDMF, Boz Digital, Antares Autotune, a bunch of other obscure stuff, TBs of samples, too much hardware to list... PC Windows 10 Pro 1803 64bit, i7-5960x (8 core), Asus x99 Deluxe ii, GeForce 1070 strix, Fractal Design Silent RL2 case, Noctua NH-d15s, 64 GB DDR4 g,Skillz Trident Z 3200 RAM, 512gb Samsung 950 m.2, 3TB segate Ironwolf NAS HDD, 4TB WDRed, 2TB WD Black, Laptop: MSI Ghost pro GS60 6QE i7-6700 Skylake Win 10 64bit, Storage: 32 TB QNAP NAS Raid 50, 12 TB QNAP RAID 1

Whatisvalis
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Whatisvalis » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:55 pm

If you don't use rewire you could try disabling it. Add the following (except the part in parenthesis) to Live's option.txt

-ReWireMasterOff (disables ReWire Master functionality)
-ReWireSlaveOff (disables ReWire Slave functionality)

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:58 pm

yeah, I tried that, but although that effectively disables Abletons rewire functionality, Ableton still writes the Rewire.dll in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Propellerhead Software\ReWire - causing Cubase to crash on exit.

However, I noticed that my UAC pops up when I launch Ableton (whilst having the rewire.dll deleted), asking me if Installhelper.exe is allowed to make changes to the system. If I select "NO" Ableton wont replace rewire.dll
So I think Installhelper.exe is what causes rewire.dll to be rewritten, so block that in the UAC and it's ok (you need to have the proper UAC level though, and be ok with that...)

It's a somewhat easier workaround - although I should now keep an extra eye on updates because I assume that's also what this Instalhelper.exe is handling.
Still, this needs fixing, especially for those who do use Rewire and have this problem.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

Whatisvalis
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Whatisvalis » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:29 pm

Cubase has other issues with Rewire, so I do wonder who is at fault. Steinberg should start supporting Link and dump rewire.

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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by fretthefret » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:52 pm

Whatisvalis wrote:Cubase has other issues with Rewire, so I do wonder who is at fault. Steinberg should start supporting Link and dump rewire.
I wouldn't want to see rewire disappear!
I'm using rewire every day and don't have issues!
Though adding LINK would be great!
Cubase Pro 10.0.5, FL Studio 20, Ableton Live Suite 10, Harrison Mixbus 32c, UAD Apollo x series, UR28m, SSL, Native Instruments Komplete ultimate, NI Maschine Studio, Xfer Records Serum, Lennar Digital Sylenth1, reFx Nexus2, Reveal Sound Spire, FabFilter, Soundtoys, Lexicon PCM, Sonarworks, Slate Digital, Izotope, Brainworx, SPL, Waves, Cableguys, Cytomic, MeldaProductions, AOM, IK Multimedia, SynchroArts Revoice Pro, DDMF, Boz Digital, Antares Autotune, a bunch of other obscure stuff, TBs of samples, too much hardware to list... PC Windows 10 Pro 1803 64bit, i7-5960x (8 core), Asus x99 Deluxe ii, GeForce 1070 strix, Fractal Design Silent RL2 case, Noctua NH-d15s, 64 GB DDR4 g,Skillz Trident Z 3200 RAM, 512gb Samsung 950 m.2, 3TB segate Ironwolf NAS HDD, 4TB WDRed, 2TB WD Black, Laptop: MSI Ghost pro GS60 6QE i7-6700 Skylake Win 10 64bit, Storage: 32 TB QNAP NAS Raid 50, 12 TB QNAP RAID 1

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:13 pm

So, got the word from Ableton saying it's something to do with Cubase which Steinberg has to fix.

No word from Steinberg as of yet.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:23 pm

Said the same to me. It's tiresome don't you think?
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

stuman40
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by stuman40 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:14 am

Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm glad I found this thread since I am also experiencing this issue. Mega thanks :)

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:38 pm

solidsilver wrote:Said the same to me. It's tiresome don't you think?
Nah, not for me really since I don't rely on Rewire atm and the workaround is very simple now (just one extra mouseclick upon opening Ableton)
That being said, this is ofcourse needs to be fixed. Got a message from Steinberg, apologizing for the delay in responding to the issue. So, they will be on it - hopefully soon.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:42 pm

stuman40 wrote:Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm glad I found this thread since I am also experiencing this issue. Mega thanks :)
Please report it to Steiny!
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

stuman40
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by stuman40 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:29 am

I'm still on 8.5 at the moment. Not sure if it'll get fixed on that version.

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Orbit-50
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Orbit-50 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:56 am

Thanks a lot guys! It fixed my "crash on exit" problem. Great work finding this. Hopefully Steinberg will fix the problem with a future update.
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Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Janko Kezar » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:35 pm

Same here. Removing the rewire.dll solves the crashing on exit.

Thanks for this info.

J
Cubase 9.5 64bit, HP elitebook 8470w, win 10

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:58 pm

Please share the information widely!
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

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planblue
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by planblue » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:53 pm

Thanks for finding this solution - it drived me crazy like too!

I investigated some more research to the rewire.dll and found this:
- Steinberg installes and uses rewire.dll in \Windows\System32 (32bit) and \Windows\SysWOW64 (64bit) with fileversion 1.8.5.40960 and product version 2.6.4.
- Ableton installes and uses older rewire.dll in \Program Files\Common Files\Propellerhead Software\ReWire (64bit) with fileversion 1.8.1.40960 and product version 2.6.0.
- if you copy the newer "steinberg" dlls to the place where ableton expects it, you will get a error message in abelton that "activating the rewire system did not work. rewire will be disabled" BUT ableton will not replace the existing rewire.dll.

So finaly you can work with both programs, ableton and steinberg, but without rewire of course.

hopefully, ableton will update the rewire interface soon...

Michael
Nuendo 8 / Cubase Pro 9 / Windows 10 64bit / RME Fireface UC

solidsilver
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by solidsilver » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Good sleuthing - at least through all this I hope steiny and ableton find a way forward. This bothered me as a bug for ages
Win 10 Pro
Cubase 9 (latest available build)
S1 v3 (latest available build)
Ableton Live 9 (latest available build)
PT 12 (latest available build)
GA-Z87X-UD5H
i7-4770K
1 x UAD Quad card
Samsung 840 Evo 1 TB with 2 Crucial SSD M4 Storage
32GB Ram

Floris
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Re: Cubase crashes on exit when I have Ableton Live 9 instal

Post by Floris » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:00 pm

Here's a little update:

Indeed, Cubase is saying the problem is with Ableton and vice versa. I suggested to them both to have a little chat about this together.
Also, Steinberg said that they haven't been made aware of this issue before, so if you experience this it might be a good idea to report it.
win 10 pro - 6800K, 64GB, Asus X99-AII
Rme Ufx, Motu Timepiece MTP, UAD2 Duo pcie
lots of plugins (soundtoys, waves, grm tools,
NI komplete ult.10, fabfilter, izotope etc)

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