Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

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Webern
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Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Webern »

Given a chain of tied notes, I cannot figure out how to select just one of the notes

In the picture, how could I select just one of the notes? How could I highlight just one of the ties and delete it?
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ViliRobert
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by ViliRobert »

Select the single note in Engrave mode instead of Write mode.

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Webern
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Webern »

One of the things I was trying to do is enter dynamics, for example selecting three of those notes in the tie chain and then entering a p<f>p.

Also, if I want to delete one tie, maybe I'm missing something but selecting a tie in engrave mode and hitting delete does not delete the tie.

I basically found that I needed to delete all of the tied notes and start over, deferring the tie-ing of the notes until other operations were done.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

You certainly don't need to delete the music and start again. To put dynamics in at the middle of a tie chain, hit Return or Shift+N to show the caret, move the caret to the position in the middle of the tie chain where you want your dynamics to go, and then hit Shift+D to show the popover.

In 1.0.10 there will be a scissor tool in the note input toolbox that will allow you to split notes and cut ties.

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by fratveno »

Webern wrote:One of the things I was trying to do is enter dynamics, for example selecting three of those notes in the tie chain and then entering a p<f>p.
You can also select the dynamics from the right-hand dynamics panel and click on the notes where you want them to go...
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Webern
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Webern »

Thank you for these replies. Using the caret to position before hitting shift-d does work for "single note selection" operations such as shift-d -> p. However for the hairpin it is a little bit less clear. I can position the caret, then use the mouse to click a hairpin in the side panel which places a small hairpin at the location of the caret.

Once that small hairpin is entered, I can not see a way in write mode to tell Dorico what the correct end "time" is. I could go to engrave mode and adjust the end position offset, but that seems hacky since properly entered hairpins do not require an override in engrave mode.

One disappointment I find is the frequency with which I need to grab the mouse to alter the selection state. A true win would be a write mode that could be used for almost everything with no mousing at all. Unfortunately, as it stands right now we do need to use the mouse a lot to change the selection state.

For example, when we jump to write mode, we must use the mouse to get something (anything) selected before we could use the arrow keys to change the selection or use shift-n to get the caret.

When we have something selected and we want to clear the selection entirely, we must use the mouse to click in some whitespace.

A key could be assigned to select a note or rest (e.g. the one that I last interacted with, or really any note or rest on the screen would do). That same key could also be used to dismiss the caret and deselect everything. This would give write mode more of a zero-mouse vim-like experience as you would no longer need the mouse for changing the selection state.

[The Finale analog is, when using Speedy Entry, zero toggles the Speedy Entry box on and off. I find myself desperately wanting that kind of toggle in Dorico write mode.]
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by fratveno »

Webern wrote:Once that small hairpin is entered, I can not see a way in write mode to tell Dorico what the correct end "time" is. I could go to engrave mode and adjust the end position offset, but that seems hacky since properly entered hairpins do not require an override in engrave mode.

It seems like selecting all of a tie chain instead of the individual notes is more annoying than useful, but maybe I'm just not seeing the usefulness of it right now.
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Robert Enns »

Does the ESC key, rather than using the mouse, not unselect anything which is selected?
Dorico V2.2.1

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by fratveno »

In my case mostly, but not 100% reliably...
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by András at Steinberg »

To enter hairpins with the caret, just type "<" or ">" at the start position, move the caret where you want to end it and press "?". You don't even need the dynamic popover for this. Entering an immediate dynamic would also stop the hairpin.

The key for clearing the selection is cmd+d (ctrl+d on win).

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by fratveno »

Great! Get it into the manual now, if it's not already there...
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Webern »

Andras, very helpful thank you.
Fratveno, I see that you quoted me before I edited away the part about finding it annoying that the whole tie chain is selected. Glad you agree. I decided to improve the tone and deleted that part of my message.
Last edited by Webern on Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Thanks, Matthew James Briggs (using Dorico on OS X 10.11)

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Webern
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Webern »

Robert Enns wrote:Does the ESC key, rather than using the mouse, not unselect anything which is selected?
It doesn't seem to work that way for me.

Command-D does work as advertised, but I maintain my desire for a key command to start the selection as well. Perhaps a repeat of Command-D could be implemented to get us back into the something-is-selected state.
- Thanks, Matthew James Briggs (using Dorico on OS X 10.11)

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Derrek »

Took me a while to figure this out: I had to:
  • set the caret
  • press < or >
  • advance the caret with the RIGHT ARROW key (not the mouse)
  • then type ? (with the SHIFT key on my Windows machine)
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by zmaine »

On a related note: I'm trying to start a slur on the second of two tied notes but I can't figure out how to do it. I tried the caret method -- i.e., pressing return and toggling over to the note where I want the slur to start, then hitting "S". It showed that the slur function was selected, but I didn't know how to then make it actually create the slur. Any insights here?

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Derrek »

"Splitting the tie," which is what you want for your slur-assignment, is not yet available but planned for the future.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

I'm afraid Dorico will only allow a slur to start on the first note of a tie chain. You can force the issue, though it's not straightforward. You would need to input the first and second notes in the tie chain in different voices, then tie them together using the T key. Dorico would then allow the slur to begin on the second of the two tied notes, because it would exist as a separate entity, which is not normally the case for tied notes.

Another option would be to let Dorico put the slur where it thinks it should go, then switch to Engrave mode and adjust the position of the slur there in the purely graphical realm.

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by ashert »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:54 am
You certainly don't need to delete the music and start again. To put dynamics in at the middle of a tie chain, hit Return or Shift+N to show the caret, move the caret to the position in the middle of the tie chain where you want your dynamics to go, and then hit Shift+D to show the popover.

In 1.0.10 there will be a scissor tool in the note input toolbox that will allow you to split notes and cut ties.
This is not working for me. Popover appears but when I ask for the crescendo it either: 1) doesn't appear at all 2) appears at the beginning of the tie chain, or 3) appears not in the write mode but (incorrectly) in Engrave mode.

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Re: Selecting Individual Notes in a Tie Chain

Post by MarcLarcher »

When the caret is active (at the position where you want the crescendo to start) press the < or > key. Select the rhythmic value you want your crescendo to have (pressing 4, 5 or 6 or whatever), and press space. And the crescendo will show, with the right value. Hope it helps.
Of course, as this is musical content, you only can input that in Write mode.
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