VCAs still broken

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twelvetwelve
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VCAs still broken

Post by twelvetwelve » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:19 pm

Disappointing that VCAs are still broken in Nuendo 10. Are there any plans to make these work properly?

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:29 pm

Repro is always good so people can verify.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by fuzzydude » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:14 am

I note the mute button is still greyed out o the VCA channel. Just checking to see if its just me or if its the same for everyone.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Iftekharul Anam » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:57 pm

fuzzydude wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:14 am
I note the mute button is still greyed out o the VCA channel. Just checking to see if its just me or if its the same for everyone.
Same here. :cry:

Should we post a feature request about this again?
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by twelvetwelve » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:31 pm

Absolutely although it seems to fall on deaf ears considering how long it's been since they were introduced and they're still broken.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by fuzzydude » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:48 pm

Iftekharul Anam wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:57 pm
fuzzydude wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:14 am
I note the mute button is still greyed out o the VCA channel. Just checking to see if its just me or if its the same for everyone.
Same here. :cry:

Should we post a feature request about this again?
Done
viewtopic.php?f=292&t=159048#p852538
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Helidream » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:23 am

Did someone test VCAs with latest Nuendo 10.1 update ?

Is it finally fixed now 4 years after its introduction ?
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by HughH » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:49 pm

Helidream wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:23 am
Did someone test VCAs with latest Nuendo 10.1 update ?

Is it finally fixed now 4 years after its introduction ?
Still seems unpredictable here . . .

As I noted here: viewtopic.php?f=291&t=159320&p=860074#p860074

Odd behavior.

Seems if I do the above test but write the VCA Automation first - then link the -10 fader to it it works . . . ?
Maybe I'll test more when I get time.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by McSound » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:25 pm

Still broken here
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by twelvetwelve » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:05 am

Absolutely still broken. They are basically unusable.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Helidream » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am

I suspect that automation code is so complicated and perhaps not so well documented that it is difficult for the development team to work on it, restructure it, and finally get this sorted out.

No other explanation because this is a feature that should work flawlessly since four years for Yamaha corporate image to avoid loosing market share in the Protools area.

Another point that show a probable difficult code base to work on, is that Nuendo 10 is not object (event) oriented yet. Automation is still only track based, compared to other software that did implement object automation sometimes decades ago (Samplitude was the first well known one).

If the code base was easy to work on, i think that Nuendo would have been object oriented when the Direct Offline Processing function was introduced. A true object oriented engine is better because it does allow to have realtime automation on events, as opposite to DOP that is only static.

So i feel that DOP implementation was decided instead of a true realtime object oriented engine, because the code base was not so easy to work on. DOP was probably a lot easier to implement.

Nuendo will need to become object oriented as soon as possible. Track based automation is really a thing of the past, when tape recorders where everywhere.
Event based automation is better than DOP when working with a lot of events that cannot share a common track based processing and need realtime automation.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:21 am

Helidream wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am
I suspect that automation code is so complicated and perhaps not so well documented that it is difficult for the development team to work on it, restructure it, and finally get this sorted out.
We cannot know we are not part of the team. This would be a reasonable explanation, but it could also be that Steinberg has a policy to always treat new features with a higher priority than bug fixing.
Helidream wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am
... this is a feature that should work flawlessly since four years for Yamaha corporate image to avoid loosing market share in the Protools area.
Too late for me, PT has almost no bells and whistles, but it gets the basics right.
Helidream wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am
Another point that show a probable difficult code base to work on, is that Nuendo 10 is not object (event) oriented yet. Automation is still only track based, compared to other software that did implement object automation sometimes decades ago (Samplitude was the first well known one).
And PT has it for EQ and Dynamics, also snapshot automation of plugs works flawlessly.
Audio post had been shouting for years on this forum, instead they got game audio integration.
Helidream wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am

...
So i feel that DOP implementation was decided instead of a true realtime object oriented engine, because the code base was not so easy to work on. DOP was probably a lot easier to implement.
Again, we do not know. We are not part of the team. but the fact that this feature is still broken 4 years after it was introduced is not okay. On the other hand the DOP desaster in N8 with broken RX integration is hardly what I would call an example of someting that was obviously easy to implement.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by McSound » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:21 pm

Helidream: As a Samplitude user since version 4 I'm absolutely agreed with you that Nuendo should be event oriented. DOP function is not so fast as Samplitude's realtime object editor.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Iftekharul Anam » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:54 am

I can confirm that VCA destinations are still forgotten in a template when I enable a track from disabled state. This is enormously frustrating. Cubase doesn't have this problem.

God, please Steinberg, fix it.
Last edited by Iftekharul Anam on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by TimoWildenhain » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:45 am

Hi all,

Thank you for the report. I have informed our dev team. They will investigate.

Thanks again,
Timo
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by twelvetwelve » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:57 am

Thanks but the dev team has known about and confirmed these issues quite a while ago. If you could convince them to make it a priority to fix that would be great.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by JezCorbett » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:10 am

Oliver.Lucas wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:21 am
Audio post had been shouting for years on this forum, instead they got game audio integration.
Hello, game audio professional here.

The Nuendo-Wwise integration is weird and I don't know anyone who uses it. I don't think it's received any updates since it's original release.

Most game audio people I know now use Reaper. Some still use Pro Tools or Nuendo (like me) and keep talking about moving to Reaper but never find the time (like me!).
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by fuzzydude » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:11 am

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:45 am
Hi all,

Thank you for the report. I have informed our dev team. They will investigate.

Thanks again,
Timo
Many thanks, can you please ask them to also make the mute button on the vca track operational as it’s currently greyed out, unlike Cubase
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by fenderchris » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:07 am

JezCorbett wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:10 am
Oliver.Lucas wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:21 am
Audio post had been shouting for years on this forum, instead they got game audio integration.
Hello, game audio professional here.

The Nuendo-Wwise integration is weird and I don't know anyone who uses it. I don't think it's received any updates since it's original release.

Most game audio people I know now use Reaper. Some still use Pro Tools or Nuendo (like me) and keep talking about moving to Reaper but never find the time (like me!).
Wow, that's pretty damning. Maybe VCA's would work by now if they hadn't bothered with the Game stuff.
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by lovegames » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:25 am

This has to be fixed for current versions of both Cubase and Nuendo. NO WAY I am paying to get this fixed.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by twelvetwelve » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:54 am

Good luck trying to get it fixed. I've been trying since they were introduced and it's not something that Steinberg seems to a) care about b) even understand how it should function.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by lovegames » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:17 am

twelvetwelve wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:54 am
Good luck trying to get it fixed. I've been trying since they were introduced and it's not something that Steinberg seems to a) care about b) even understand how it should function.
No this absolutely needs to get fixed, we just need to keep bumping this thread and PM'ing devs and moderators. This absolutely has to get fixed for current version.

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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by fuzzydude » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:20 am

+1
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Re: VCAs still broken

Post by Iftekharul Anam » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:48 pm

twelvetwelve wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:54 am
Good luck trying to get it fixed. I've been trying since they were introduced and it's not something that Steinberg seems to a) care about b) even understand how it should function.
Seemingly, In case of Cubase and at least 'VCA Destination' to be remembered correctly,

A) They care about it. Because, Cubase can remember VCA destinations from a disabled state of tracks.

B) Even understand how it should function.

It is the Nuendo team (not entirely Steinberg) that seems to be much more broken than even Cubase, in terms of VCA faders.
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