DOP is STILL horribly broken.

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JezCorbett
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DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:38 pm

Ok I've about had enough now. Is this EVER going to get fixed?

Steps to reproduce.

1. Take an audio file with lots of small sounds in it (such as you might have in a sound effect library) and chop it up into individual blocks.

2. Apply a pitch shift to them, e.g. 1 octave.

3. Take another audio file similar to the one in step one, do the same as step and and 2.

4. Select all of them.

5. Adjust the pitch shift settings to be a few semitones higher.

6. Observe a completely broken clusterfark.

Example:

By Step 4 they look like this: https://i.imgur.com/FIvaqIv.png
After Step 5 they now look like this: https://i.imgur.com/mz6wJZL.png

This has been the case since I first tried DOP in Cubase ... 8.5 was it?

DOP has broken my workflow entirely. Steinberg please tell us what is going on here? DOP is such a good concept, but why can't you make it work?
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

Graveley
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Graveley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:23 pm

So frustrating. I’m scared to even use it!
N10 Windows 7

stingray
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by stingray » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:34 pm

Step 3(a) Make Direct Offline Processing Permanent

Does this solve the problem?

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Fredo
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Fredo » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:50 am

Sorry, can't seem to replicate this.
But it looks like you aren't using Time Correction, which makes that all of your files are indeed getting longer/shorter.
In that case, it seems logical that, if you make a certain part of your original file longer/shorter, the rest of the audio is affected too.
And this would have happened with the old fashioned Offline processing too.
Unless I am misunderstanding this ...

Fredo

PleaseDontBanMe
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by PleaseDontBanMe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:18 am

yes it sounds like the pitch shift algo you are using is shifting the audio because the bits you have chopped up are actually still point to just one audio file even though they are separate events.

try bouncing the small bits first, then applying DOP.

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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by yonah » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:45 pm

Yeah! DOP is a nightmare! With RX7 connect when you hit undo/redo Nuendo brings you RX7 window again!

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:41 am

Fredo wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:50 am
Sorry, can't seem to replicate this.
But it looks like you aren't using Time Correction, which makes that all of your files are indeed getting longer/shorter.
In that case, it seems logical that, if you make a certain part of your original file longer/shorter, the rest of the audio is affected too.
And this would have happened with the old fashioned Offline processing too.
Unless I am misunderstanding this ...

Fredo
I am indeed not using Time Correction, I want to slow them down. I would indeed expect the audio files to get longer.

I would not, however, expect them to be a broken mess, and this does not happen using the old offline processing - it works fine.
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:00 pm

stingray wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:34 pm
Step 3(a) Make Direct Offline Processing Permanent

Does this solve the problem?
How do you do that?
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:04 pm

Trying to make a video now and of course it all works properly every time lol.
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:36 pm

Right! I have managed to capture the problem in action.

Steps to reproduce.

1. Get a long piece of audio with multiple sounds in it.
2. Apply a time stretch to the whole thing.
3. Now chop the audio into pieces.
4. Adjust the time stretch settings in an individual piece.
5. Observe a broken mess

Here's a video showing steps 4 and, more importantly 5.

https://youtu.be/SWlJKTzwNMY

Notice how much short bit of audio that Im hoping to match the length with the audio above, become a big ol' bunch of WTF.

I don't want to bounce the audio because then I'll lose fidelity stretching it out again.
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

stingray
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by stingray » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:51 am

JezCorbett wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:00 pm
stingray wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:34 pm
Step 3(a) Make Direct Offline Processing Permanent

Does this solve the problem?
How do you do that?
Take a look in the audio menu and you'll find the command.

rbesser
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by rbesser » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:41 am

JezCorbett wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:36 pm
Right! I have managed to capture the problem in action.

Steps to reproduce.

1. Get a long piece of audio with multiple sounds in it.
2. Apply a time stretch to the whole thing.
3. Now chop the audio into pieces.
4. Adjust the time stretch settings in an individual piece.
5. Observe a broken mess

Here's a video showing steps 4 and, more importantly 5.

https://youtu.be/SWlJKTzwNMY

Notice how much short bit of audio that Im hoping to match the length with the audio above, become a big ol' bunch of WTF.

I don't want to bounce the audio because then I'll lose fidelity stretching it out again.
Hi Jez,
I use 2 workarounds when this happens.

1- AFTER PROCESSING-Just slide the whole audio processed down to a new track (it will keep the other edited files) and erase the parts you don´t want.

2- BEFORE PROCESSING- Move the audio to a new track and then process it.

Hope it helps.

RB

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:14 pm

Moving to a new track doesn't help.

Ive got a bunch of pitched down audio clips that I've copied, and want to remove the pitch down from. If I try removing the pitch change I get a clip 4 times as long with a load of random nonsense in it.
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

rbesser
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by rbesser » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:09 pm

Take a look at the video. I think you´ll understand.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qjU0_4 ... sp=sharing

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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Rucareanu » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:13 pm

I have had this problem since Nuendo 8 when using Pitch Shift without Time Correction, or Sizing Applies Time Stretch, and then Undoing or Changing parameters of the processes in DOP; on all of my workstations. And it's odd that this problem is not always consistent.

And many times, for sound design/editing reasons, we have to use this processes without Time Correction. So this was one of the many DOP related reasons why I continued to work in Nuendo 7 long afterwards. But now, that I moved to Nuendo 10, I have to live with it.

It's like, you get some new shiny tools and processes that greatly improves your workflow on one hand, but have to waste time with workarounds for broken tasks that worked fluently before, on the other hand. Well, at least they balance each other, in the end. :)

Still, Steinberg fixed many broken DOP processes with the release of Nuendo 10, so let's just hope they will also resolved this problem with a future update.
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Graveley
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Graveley » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:32 pm

rbesser wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:09 pm
Take a look at the video. I think you´ll understand.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qjU0_4 ... sp=sharing
This is painful...
N10 Windows 7

JezCorbett
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by JezCorbett » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:25 am

DOP just screwed me again, trying to add a pitch bend to a bunch of chopped up audio sections that already had pitch shift on them. At least I was able to undo it. I just need to remember that after every process i need to bounce bounce bounce bounce every individual bit of audio.

At this point I realise I'm just here to vent because Steinberg dont gaf, and waiting for some free time switch over to reaper.

Does anyone actually do sound design in Nuendo any more?

Any games industry people here?
Work system: Nuendo 8.3.20 / 10.1 | Windows 10 | Intel i7-4770 | 32GB RAM
Home system: Nuendo 5.5 | Windows 10 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GB RAM

AlexBell
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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by AlexBell » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:47 am

Hey, I think you can get the same problem doing process/reverse on a partial clip, so maybe the fault runs deep in the whole nuendo programming?

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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Captain_Dan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:07 pm

Hey Jez,

Yeah I do a bit of everything including game stuff (we know each other from Game Audio Drinks) and whilst I've been a massive advocate of Nuendo I haven't upgraded past N7 because I can't afford to have these sort of problems.

I've written on here a few times about my issues with DOP, as have others, and every time they're either ignored or argued with and I really don't understand why. You'd think such an integral part of many peoples workflow would be an important thing to either fix or provide a workaround for...

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Re: DOP is STILL horribly broken.

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm

Captain_Dan wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:07 pm
...
I've written on here a few times about my issues with DOP, as have others, and every time they're either ignored or argued with and I really don't understand why. You'd think such an integral part of many peoples workflow would be an important thing to either fix or provide a workaround for...
I have thought about the reason why this happens so often in forums:

1. People don‘t have the problem because they don‘t use the function
2. People don‘t have the problem because there is something different in their installation
3. People do have the problem but they don‘t care e.g. because they want something different fixed or implemented and want to see this implemented.
4. People do have the problem and actually like having to find workarounds and have the time to do so.
5. Religious reasons. Don‘t speak ill about our holy platform.
6. Fear. I have invested so much time in the pletform, if I need to switch it will cost a lot of time and money and soi go into a state of denial.
6. People who don‘t have the problem because they do not use the app anymore and only come back to see if the app gets back on track
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