ilok instead of elicenser

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:02 pm

I've had zero problems with my iLok, zero problems with my elicenser.

I remember things I need to remember or remind myself using a piece of paper or my online calendar with reminders, and then I just don't break stuff. It's not brain surgery this...
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
soundpeaks_net
Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:14 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by soundpeaks_net » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:21 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:01 pm
soundpeaks_net wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:28 pm
I have over 9000 unfinished projects
And the dongle is a problem?

lol... ok...
Switching DAW is a problem. Did you actually read the comment?

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:58 pm

Why would you switch DAWs?
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
soundpeaks_net
Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:14 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by soundpeaks_net » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:08 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:58 pm
Why would you switch DAWs?
I was saying I'm afraid that Cubase is not moving towards electronic music producers and it's in vicious circle. Young producers can't afford it and don't do feature requests. Dongle sucks and Cubase should be available via torrents again. It'll breathe new life into the community. Now it's too old and abandoned.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by skijumptoes » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:09 pm

Young producers CAN and DO afford it, what a complete pile of *flower* you're talking. Electronic producers spend more money on clothes, phones, games consoles or trainers than a version of Cubase costs - it's a ridiculously weak excuse to steal other people's hard work, there's plenty of options out there for people to be creating.

Not many DAW's promote active artists page with such a diverse set of producers as Steinberg:-
https://www.steinberg.net/en/community/artists.html

Add to that regular hangout sessions to aid users in how to use the software with Q&A sections. I'd say Cubase is an ideal starter for anyone on a budget, you don't need 'pro' to bang out some great tunes.

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:44 pm

soundpeaks_net wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:08 pm
MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:58 pm
Why would you switch DAWs?
I was saying I'm afraid that Cubase is not moving towards electronic music producers and it's in vicious circle.
"vicious" is a bit of a dramatic word though..
soundpeaks_net wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:08 pm
Young producers can't afford it
How young? Where?

If they're teenagers then it's a pretty damn tall order to want a professional application to be cheap enough so that teenagers can afford it. On top of that teenagers are the source of a tremendous amount of spending - through their parents. So, I don't think we're really talking about teenagers here...

Adults? Ok. Let's take adults as an example. Cubase 10 Pro is a whopping 560 American dollars. That's 46 bucks and 67 cents per month, or 11.67 per week. Say you keep the thing for two years before you decide to spend again; now that amount is halved.

Young producers can't afford $6 / week on what they do for a living?

Not for a living? Ok. Look at the spending habits of the average "young producer" of EDM. How much do they spend per week and on what? I know that saving $24 in a month here in NY is about 3 beers when going to bars (four if you drink crap). Is that something I can save?

Subway fare to and from work for me is about 5.50. You know what I do? I use my bike. As long as the weather is nice and I'm working in a studio where I can store my bike I use it. That's all it takes to make far more a saving than what Cubase costs (and get exercise).

What else do these EDM producers spend on? Shoes? Cool shirts? Clubbing? Going to the gym working out? Video games?

Can't afford 5-10 bucks per week? BS!
soundpeaks_net wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:08 pm
Cubase should be available via torrents again. It'll breathe new life into the community. Now it's too old and abandoned.
Ah, yes... old farts... once you grow up yourself and realize how capitalism works and get some children you have to support you might figure out that even those that work at Steinberg need to get paid.

Quite frankly it sounds like you're advocating piracy and that shouldn't really be something for this forum.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

ollibeat
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by ollibeat » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:42 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:09 pm
...
Haha, go tell me about featured artists. In that list only Chase & Status, London Elektricity, Mefjus, Noisia and Zedd means anything to me in terms of sophisticated and advanced sound production. Most of them in that list are live acts. And only Zedd and Tiesto are in TOP100 DJ list. I doubt Tiesto himself writes his music though.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:44 pm
...
Only Studio One has payments in installments. But I think your biggest issue is that you are living in parallel reality and say what could have been instead of what is going on now. As soon as you can see what is actually happens in DAW's users base around the world not only US, you will understand that I am right. Here's some numbers:

YOUTUBE Subscribers:
Image Line: 385,507 subscribers
Ableton: 301,667 subscribers
Propellerhead: 150,403 subscribers
PreSonus Audio Electronics: 95,177 subscribers
Avid: 89,857 subscribers
Cubase: 67,131 subscribers

Major version release views:
Ableton Live 10: What's New - 987,225 views
FL STUDIO 20 | What's New? - 405,140 views
Propellerhead - Announcing Reason 10! - 291,223 views
What is New in Cubase 10 | Promo Video - 186,690 views
PreSonus - Studio One 4 Now Available - 78,957 views

Channel last video views:
Image Line - FL Studio 20.5 | In A Minute! - 40K views 7 hours ago
Propellerhead - PolyStep Sequencer Player for Reason - 24K views 1 month ago
Cubase - Understanding the Set-up Buttons - 3.9K views 3 days ago
Ableton - Sounds Like Tomorrow: Making Music for the Future | Loop - 2.3K views 5 days ago
Avid - The New User Experience & Interface - 1.7K views 3 weeks ago
PreSonus - What Does ATB Love about Studio One? - 1.1K views 4 days ago

Reddit:
ableton - 98,692 readers
fl studio - 88,302 readers
reasoners - 7,607 readers
cubase - 5,032 readers
studio one - 3,301 readers
protools - 3,964 readers

TOP100 DJ:
Martin Garrix - FL Stuio
Dimitri Vegas & Like Mike - Logic, Ableton
Hardwell - Logic, Cubase, FL
Armin Van Buuren - FL Studio, Studio One, Logic
David Guetta - Ableton, FL Studio, Logic

Sound Design: - request and daws on youtube, 5 results (biased to my past requests though)
how to bass growl - ableton, fl, fl, fl, ableton
bass reese - ableton, fl, fl, cubase, cubase, fl
how to skrillex - ableton, fl, ableton, ableton, ableton
hip hop beat - fl, fl, fl, fl, bitwig
how to record a song daw - reaper, pro tools, pro tools, pro tools, ableton

Google Trends
Image

Image

torrents - most downloaded release by name for the whole time
Steinberg - Cubase 5.1 x86 [23.11.2009] - 274,905
Image-Line - FL Studio 10.0.9c Signature Bundle x86 [6.03.2012] - 163,735
Propellerhead - Reason 5.0.1 build 1.472 x86 [3.12.2010] - 80,054
Avid - Pro Tools HD 12.5.0.395 x64 [04.2016, ENG] - 44,981
Ableton 8.3.4 x86 [3.09.2012] - 42,665
PreSonus - Studio One Pro 2.6.5 x86 x64 [2.12.2014] - 14,421

Conclusions
<irony>piracy is bad</irony>, piracy kills companies - 😂


PS: Nokia once died because they were too slow and not market-aware. It's obvious what today's trend is - electronic music, hip-hop, EDM. Not live acts recordings. Cubase once was the greatest DAW outside of USA, now it's far far behind the companies that didn't implement any dongles... with its hardly famous featured artists (imho).

PPS: mods will ban me for this message because they don't want you know the truth. I always felt like this but when I googled the actual numbers I've discovered that Cubase are in deeper crisis then I thought.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by skijumptoes » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:42 pm

It's just different markets, so many people pirate Ableton/FL and actively subscribe to youtube channels as it's their demographic - it's not an immediate indication of success as a business model. Cubase has a different market and wider customer base, as i see it. i.e. you can't vocal comp or manage takes with Ableton which is important if you're stepping into any vocal parts on top of your base EDM compositions. There's just a mass of amateurs using FL/Ableton "Cause they can" ...for free, and it fits the current trend of EDM/Social media presence.

I'm not sure what's being suggested here, Steinberg should drop software protection to get more 'users' even if they're not paying for the products? ...for what reason? OR are you saying that they should completely change the DAW to be like Ableton/FL? Again - why, when those products exist already!?

The software hasn't been designed for EDM from the ground up like FL/Ableton and therefore can never be as focused as either of those. It's also not a new DAW like Studio One which is still sculpting it's way through the market and has recently done more for EDM users, it also hasn't the advantage of being subsidised like Logic is on Macs. It's progresses alongside Nuendo as a joint development, features an IOS app which achieves a great deal on a tablet device and offers a wide foundation for music composition.

If the younger EDM crowd aren't prepared to pay for products then i don't know what the answer is to get that market that the lower editions of Cubase don't already? (i.e. LE/AI/Elements/Artist etc.) - perhaps they should consider putting out a low cost 'EDM' version which has sidechain compression but drops vocal comps/takes etc. I don't know how they could manage the mix to make it appeal, really.

Personally, I don't feel that the e-licenser is a stumbling block, but maybe i'm wrong as i can no longer see from that perspective, but this crowd want quick results with minimum skill and that's why FL/Ableton and related social media outlets are so hugely popular. They're just far different products, and considered 'cool' in that genre because of their immediacy of use.

Bottom line for me in regards to business success:-
Ableton's estimated revenue is $4.4m https://www.owler.com/company/ableton
Steinberg estimated revenue is $9.5m https://www.owler.com/company/steinberg ... logiesgmbh

So with all the numbers that you've quoted above shows how damaging piracy is to a company, Ableton is getting 500% the attention, yet 50% of the revenue. Steinberg have been going strong since 1984, you'd have to say that the e-licenser is making big sense and protecting jobs of their staff.

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:27 pm

ollibeat wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:42 pm
how to skrillex
lol... ok buddy...
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:29 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:42 pm
I'm not sure what's being suggested here, Steinberg should drop software protection to get more 'users' even if they're not paying for the products? ...for what reason? OR are you saying that they should completely change the DAW to be like Ableton/FL? Again - why, when those products exist already!?
The complaints sound like those coming from people who want the product but don't want to pay for it, and can't get a cracked copy of it. Either purely egotistic people or children.
Or both.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

Renesas
New Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:43 am

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by Renesas » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:41 pm

ollibeat wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:42 pm
skijumptoes wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:09 pm
...
Haha, go tell me about featured artists. In that list only Chase & Status, London Elektricity, Mefjus, Noisia and Zedd means anything to me in terms of sophisticated and advanced sound production. Most of them in that list are live acts. And only Zedd and Tiesto are in TOP100 DJ list. I doubt Tiesto himself writes his music though.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:44 pm
...
Only Studio One has payments in installments. But I think your biggest issue is that you are living in parallel reality and say what could have been instead of what is going on now. As soon as you can see what is actually happens in DAW's users base around the world not only US, you will understand that I am right. Here's some numbers:

YOUTUBE Subscribers:
Image Line: 385,507 subscribers
Ableton: 301,667 subscribers
Propellerhead: 150,403 subscribers
PreSonus Audio Electronics: 95,177 subscribers
Avid: 89,857 subscribers
Cubase: 67,131 subscribers

Major version release views:
Ableton Live 10: What's New - 987,225 views
FL STUDIO 20 | What's New? - 405,140 views
Propellerhead - Announcing Reason 10! - 291,223 views
What is New in Cubase 10 | Promo Video - 186,690 views
PreSonus - Studio One 4 Now Available - 78,957 views

Channel last video views:
Image Line - FL Studio 20.5 | In A Minute! - 40K views 7 hours ago
Propellerhead - PolyStep Sequencer Player for Reason - 24K views 1 month ago
Cubase - Understanding the Set-up Buttons - 3.9K views 3 days ago
Ableton - Sounds Like Tomorrow: Making Music for the Future | Loop - 2.3K views 5 days ago
Avid - The New User Experience & Interface - 1.7K views 3 weeks ago
PreSonus - What Does ATB Love about Studio One? - 1.1K views 4 days ago

Reddit:
ableton - 98,692 readers
fl studio - 88,302 readers
reasoners - 7,607 readers
cubase - 5,032 readers
studio one - 3,301 readers
protools - 3,964 readers

TOP100 DJ:
Martin Garrix - FL Stuio
Dimitri Vegas & Like Mike - Logic, Ableton
Hardwell - Logic, Cubase, FL
Armin Van Buuren - FL Studio, Studio One, Logic
David Guetta - Ableton, FL Studio, Logic

Sound Design: - request and daws on youtube, 5 results (biased to my past requests though)
how to bass growl - ableton, fl, fl, fl, ableton
bass reese - ableton, fl, fl, cubase, cubase, fl
how to skrillex - ableton, fl, ableton, ableton, ableton
hip hop beat - fl, fl, fl, fl, bitwig
how to record a song daw - reaper, pro tools, pro tools, pro tools, ableton

Google Trends
Image

Image

torrents - most downloaded release by name for the whole time
Steinberg - Cubase 5.1 x86 [23.11.2009] - 274,905
Image-Line - FL Studio 10.0.9c Signature Bundle x86 [6.03.2012] - 163,735
Propellerhead - Reason 5.0.1 build 1.472 x86 [3.12.2010] - 80,054
Avid - Pro Tools HD 12.5.0.395 x64 [04.2016, ENG] - 44,981
Ableton 8.3.4 x86 [3.09.2012] - 42,665
PreSonus - Studio One Pro 2.6.5 x86 x64 [2.12.2014] - 14,421

Conclusions
<irony>piracy is bad</irony>, piracy kills companies - 😂


PS: Nokia once died because they were too slow and not market-aware. It's obvious what today's trend is - electronic music, hip-hop, EDM. Not live acts recordings. Cubase once was the greatest DAW outside of USA, now it's far far behind the companies that didn't implement any dongles... with its hardly famous featured artists (imho).

PPS: mods will ban me for this message because they don't want you know the truth. I always felt like this but when I googled the actual numbers I've discovered that Cubase are in deeper crisis then I thought.
This is great info and truth to which steinberg close their eyes

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:08 am

No, it isn't. It's just dumb.

What's the revenue of Ableton? Just below 20m in 2012.
What's the revenue of Avid? Just below HALF A BILLION in 2017.

Yeah, iLoks and copyright and poor YouTube views sure seem to have hurt Avid.

Don't have the number for Steinberg, but I'm betting it's somewhere between Avid and Ableton. More importantly Yamaha of over 400 billion yen, which comes out to about 3.7 BILLION dollars in 2017.

So yeah, it's just dumb.

---

Something tells me the people who support that reasoning are either not adults or they're adults making money doing something different than music. I could be wrong of course.

Either way it's dumb.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
Mr. Beer
Junior Member
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:58 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by Mr. Beer » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:49 pm

This post is a load of crap. No one is forced to use Cubase. If you don't like it, or Steinbergs terms, move on.
My wife said I was delusional, I almost fell off my unicorn laughing.

PleaseDontBanMe
Member
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 am

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by PleaseDontBanMe » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:43 am

What are the numbers between Lamborghini and Honda I wonder?

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: ilok instead of elicenser

Post by skijumptoes » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:54 am

PleaseDontBanMe wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:43 am
What are the numbers between Lamborghini and Honda I wonder?
Is one easier to steal than the other then? Obviously the car which is easiest to steal is the one that is most successful - it's basic EDM economics!

Locked

Return to “Steinberg Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests