Bring on that sweet figured bass!

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:57 am

I’m glad I could help.
You’re very welcome, Michael, and thank you for the positive feedback.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 pm

I'm not trying to bump this thread, but I just wanted to say that I had my first experience using Florian's figured bass font in Dorico and I found the ease of use amazing and the results beautiful. Perhaps everything has already been covered but I just wanted to report my success entering the figures using translation lyrics which are easy to access immediately. I found this particularly useful when entering figures at spots without bass notes. I simply double-click the spot where I need the figure, thereby taking me into note entry mode. Pressing Shift-L takes me into lyric entry and the popup stays where I need it to be. I then press Alt-down arrow and I'm ready to enter the figure (I can imagine this being just as easy using verses). I also found it handy to be able to enter extension lines when necessary by advancing the cursor using Shift and avoiding them by advancing the cursor using the right arrow, although that function has limited use. At the end, I filter-selected all the lyrics in the bass staff and chose left-align, as Dorico can move the lyrics around slightly as part of its spacing routine. This action placed all the figures very neatly and consistently. All I can say is, 'Hats off!'
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri May 17, 2019 12:15 am

Thank you, Vaughan. Your feedback is much appreciated.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri May 17, 2019 9:54 am

By the way, since the thread is up here again, I might as well post this now:

Daniel has let me know that they are indeed currently updating the Qt framework, so the Mac bug will no longer trouble us once Dorico 3 is out. Both Figurato and Metrico will work as expected in Dorico on Mac then.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by MarcLarcher » Fri May 17, 2019 12:58 pm

Thanks, Florian, this is good news!
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Sat May 18, 2019 10:52 am

Florian, I just needed to enter an 865 and it's not [yet] included in your font. It skips from 864 to 866. ;)
Not a big deal for now but sometime it'd be good to include it. Thanks again for a great font!
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by jeffrags » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:13 pm

Vaughan Schlepp wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 pm
I'm not trying to bump this thread, but I just wanted to say that I had my first experience using Florian's figured bass font in Dorico and I found the ease of use amazing and the results beautiful. Perhaps everything has already been covered but I just wanted to report my success entering the figures using translation lyrics which are easy to access immediately. I found this particularly useful when entering figures at spots without bass notes. I simply double-click the spot where I need the figure, thereby taking me into note entry mode. Pressing Shift-L takes me into lyric entry and the popup stays where I need it to be. I then press Alt-down arrow and I'm ready to enter the figure (I can imagine this being just as easy using verses). I also found it handy to be able to enter extension lines when necessary by advancing the cursor using Shift and avoiding them by advancing the cursor using the right arrow, although that function has limited use. At the end, I filter-selected all the lyrics in the bass staff and chose left-align, as Dorico can move the lyrics around slightly as part of its spacing routine. This action placed all the figures very neatly and consistently. All I can say is, 'Hats off!'
Hmm... Perhaps it could be as 'simple' as adding a new type of lyrics for figured bass. But there is the possible issue of playback, of course.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:34 am

As I have it now, Figurato is being used as the lyrics translation font. It's easy to access (Alt-down arrow) but it does mean that I can't have a lyrics translation in a different font, although this is something I haven't yet needed.

Trying to program figured bass to play back would seem to me to be a near-impossible task. For one thing, figuring is generally and perhaps even by definition incomplete, i.e. not every bass note is figured. While this isn't a problem for an experienced player, an algorithm to determine if there should be a chord above an unfigured bass note and if so, what it might be, has to take many considerations into account, like style period, tempo, instrumentation, what's happening in the other voice(s) and a number of others. For another thing, a good continuo player has to juggle effortlessly between observing the rules of good voice leading and breaking those rules for an affect or when the context requires it. Then there's the fact that when making a good realisation, the player not only has to take the continuo instrument itself into account but also the other instruments in the ensemble (and even the musical personalities of the instrumentalists!). Then there are the acoustics of the performance space which play an important role in the realisation. And on it goes...
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by k_b » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:22 am

yes Vaughan, very well explained.
If there was a figured bass playback, it should be very plain and basic (if at all).
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Claude Lapalme » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm

While it may well be that it will not play back, I have a feeling that Dorico's (figurative) figured bass would likely be transposable. Something which would set it apart from the rest of the field (again!).
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:32 pm

I recently had to transpose a number of pieces and it entailed going through and changing many of the figures, and it'd be really convenient if Dorico could transpose those correctly, as well, much like chords. Unfortunately there were a lot of [conflicting] figured bass conventions (like the 5 with a slash) and these would have to be taken into account.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Claude Lapalme » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:46 pm

It would not be simple, but it would be simpler than playback. I think also that the many conventions would be available in engrave mode, which would simplify the task considerably.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by k_b » Wed May 20, 2020 9:56 am

What’s New in Dorico 3.5?
“Comprehensive Figured Bass”
https://youtu.be/gomvK8yxg8Q
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Rob Tuley » Wed May 20, 2020 11:03 am

True. Type "D7" into the figured bass popover over a C note and get #4 2 automatically. or Dm7 for just 4 2. (I suspect harmony teachers are going to either love or hate that option).

Or transpose your score from F to G and get all the accidentals in the figured bass adjusted automatically.

That doesn't work in Figurato ;)

(Bur Figurato is brilliant for what it can do, of course.)

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Wed May 20, 2020 11:17 am

Rob Tuley wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:03 am
That doesn't work in Figurato ;)
Well, maybe I should have worked a little harder. :D

Seriously, I'm more than happy that all this font nonsense has finally become moot. If you guys knew the hoops that Figurato has to jump through internally... it's ludicrous. Let's do things the right way now!
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Rob Tuley » Wed May 20, 2020 11:53 am

But now you are in the same situation with fonts as when somebody remarked to a physicist (not Einstein) "I think there are only three people in the world who really understand General Relativity" and got the reply "Who is the third one?" :)

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Pascal Kinsbourg » Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm

New figured bass in Dorico 3.5 is a great feature. I'm using Figurato font and the Dorico lyrics popover to enter figured bass or symbols for analysis at the moment. Is there a way to enter French style symbols for harmonic analysis in the new Figured Bass popover? Intervals preceded by the (+) sign for dominant chords (+6, +4) or dashed intervals (/) for diminished chords?

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed May 20, 2020 3:17 pm

No, we specifically haven't targeted more general harmonic analysis tools with the figured bass features in Dorico 3.5, but we plan to come back to this in future versions.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Wed May 20, 2020 4:37 pm

fkretlow wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:17 am
Let's do things the right way now!
Well, a SMuFL-compliant Figurato, for use with the new feature, would be awesome. Then we could still use the Lyric workaround for the things that haven't yet been implemented, and keep a consistent style.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Wed May 20, 2020 6:33 pm

Bravo for figured bass. For me, however, setting the option to slash a figure rather than use a sharp symbol does not seem to have any effect. Have I missed a step?

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Claude Lapalme » Wed May 20, 2020 6:58 pm

Are you using literal input (shift-I>Figured Bass)? If so, you will have to select the figures and reset them using right-click>Figured Bass> reset
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Wed May 20, 2020 7:07 pm

Figured it out. To reliably get a slashed figure, type + instead of # in the box e.g. +6 instead of #6. This works for 4 as well.
Last edited by wconable on Mon May 25, 2020 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Mon May 25, 2020 12:35 am

I haven't been able to copy figured bass from one part to another. If I select a whole figured part, notes and all and try pasting it into another staff, the figures don't transfer. Similarly, if I select just the figures and copy them, I can't paste them. It seems that the figures have to be typed into each layout independently. This can't be intended....

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Mon May 25, 2020 1:04 am

Curiouser and curiouser! I tried pasting the figures from one line into another. When I opened the figured bass popup for the destination notes, it is populated with the figures I want in there; but the figures don't show up on the actual notes in any view. (If it's not clear, I'm trying to get the figures to show up both in the bottom staff of the harpsichord and in the bare continuo part.)

Next weirdness. When I erase the figures on the first note in the destination line, leave the popup, re-enter the popup and manually type in the desired figures for that one note, not only those figures show up on the part as desired, but all the other figures that were invisible before suddenly appear, and when I continue typing figures in the rh of the harpsichord, they continue to be transferred into the continuo part, a wonderful thing.

So there seems to be a tiny bug but once it's swatted for the flow, all's very well indeed.

*******

And now a few minutes later, the figures I type into the popup aren't showing up in the score at all. And now if I type them manually in the target staff, they show up in the original staff.

To be clear, this is a wonderful new feature, but there does seem to be something lurking in there....
Last edited by wconable on Mon May 25, 2020 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Romanos401 » Mon May 25, 2020 1:12 am

Rob Tuley wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:03 am
True. Type "D7" into the figured bass popover over a C note and get #4 2 automatically. or Dm7 for just 4 2. (I suspect harmony teachers are going to either love or hate that option).

Or transpose your score from F to G and get all the accidentals in the figured bass adjusted automatically.

That doesn't work in Figurato ;)

(Bur Figurato is brilliant for what it can do, of course.)

I haven’t tried this yet, but I wonder if you can also play a chord with the midi keyboard like you can for the chord track. That would also be a great way to enter fb.
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