Bring on that sweet figured bass!

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benwiggy
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:15 pm

A-ha! Thanks, Marc.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:20 pm

meixner wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:42 pm
fkretlow wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 pm
When I saw your post earlier I thought that the font might be useful to you or to others nonetheless. So I took the time to upload it to my github repository:
https://github.com/fkretlow/figurato

Be warned though, I haven't tested the font with the Mac version of Dorico yet. It may or may not work.
I'd appreciate your feedback!
Thanks fkretlow! Works great on a Mac (german keyboard here), only the <period> doesn't seem to do anything ...
(Maybe I could try in FontForge)
Thank you for your feedback! Much appreciated.
This makes me wonder... The combination accidental+period should trigger a simple ligature with different mark to base anchors. But when those work with normal numbers, as you say, why wouldn't it work with the ligatures? Hmm...
The fontforge file is on GitHub too, in case you want to try something yourself.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by tisimst » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:26 pm

Nice work, Florian! That's some pretty clever functionality!
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:43 am

tisimst wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:26 pm
Nice work, Florian! That's some pretty clever functionality!
Thank you, Abraham! Coming from you, this means a lot.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:20 am

Florian, I've tested Figurato on the Mac. it works really well, apart from the following:

Your gif shows (and the notes say) that it stacks from the bottom up: but for me, it stacks from the top down - I type 75 to get 7 on the top. (Which I prefer.)
If I type 5.# (to get 5 on top of a sharp), I get the two characters on top of one another. It works fine with the sharp on top.

I have to type 4/ to get 4+. It might be nice to have the + character do the same as /.

Also: is it possible to adjust the baseline, without affecting the baseline for real lyrics? They're quite far away from the notes.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:39 pm

Thank you, Ben, for testing figurato and for your feedback, which is very valuable, although quite puzzling. This is not how it is supposed to work, and how it does, in fact, work on Windows. Alas it seems that OpenType feature handling differs more than I hoped between Windows and Mac. I guess I'll need to find a Dorico user with a Mac so I can work out a solution when I get back to this... Anyway, many thanks for reporting this.
I will make + do the same as /.
As for the baseline, I don't know yet. I'll have to find out what really happens first. :)
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:35 pm

I'm happy to do more testing when I can.

What you've shown is that it should be relatively easy** for Dorico to implement Figured Bass as a specialised form of their existing text/lyric model with a suitable font, though I suspect they'd want to match alphanumeric text input to the Bravura Figured bass glyphs.

Of course, if they wanted to make it play the chords....

** (Anyone who says "it should be easy to implement" without having seen the code or data structures is not to be trusted.)
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by tisimst » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:22 pm

fkretlow wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:43 am
tisimst wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:26 pm
Nice work, Florian! That's some pretty clever functionality!
Thank you, Abraham! Coming from you, this means a lot.
That’s a very kind thing to say. I do have some suggestions for improving the outlines of the glyphs, but we can talk offline about that via the github repo.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:43 pm

Yes, Figurato does work on a Mac. Congratulations! It is wonderfully fast compared to trying to remember all those ways of typing the odd characters (e.g. Shift-option-E for a slashed 6). You can put parentheses or brackets around a figure if you add a non-breaking space after the last note, but the kerning is off; 1 space is too tight and 2 is too loose. If you could manage to include the possibility of putting the accidental on the other side of the figure and add a few things like a crossed transverse line for a sharp 4 and sharp 2, I'd use it and never look back.

Edit: I see that you can add those crossed transverse lines! Wow! So now it's just the ability to put accidentals before the figure. I get the same results as benwiggy with the 5.#.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by wconable » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:30 pm

Re benwiggy's post #30: You can easily adjust the baseline of the lyrics in Engraving Preferences: Lyrics. As to having the figured bass interact with actual lyrics, I never have to worry about that problem, but given that there are more than one lyrics lines (e.g. translations) I'd think you'd pretty easily be able to work around this.

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:43 pm

Thank you for reporting your experience with Figurato, wconable! I'm glad you find it useful.
I definitely want to allow accidentals on the left side of the numbers, and I'd like to add parentheses as well. The latter might turn out to be too complicated in the end though... we'll see.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:35 am

wconable wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:30 pm
Re benwiggy's post #30: You can easily adjust the baseline of the lyrics in Engraving Preferences: Lyrics.
But doesn't that affect ALL lyrics? Currently my lyrics are where I want them, but the Figured Bass is too far away.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:55 pm

Just to let you know: I have uploaded a new version of Figurato to the repository.

Quite a few things have changed.

I have reworked the outlines and added some weight, I hope the figures are more comfortable to read now.

Accidentals can now be placed either to the right or to the left of the numbers. Accidentals to the right of the numbers are considered standard, whereas you need to tell the font that you want them to be on the left side by typing a comma between the preceding number and the first accidental (comma is used as a sort of universal separator).
Furthermore, accidentals in adjacent layers should now avoid collisions with each other in many cases. (Please let me know if you find any collisions so I can add the respective contextual rules.)

I have added rudimentary support for parentheses and brackets, though as of now you cannot yet put more than one layer in a single pair of parentheses or brackets. It works with accidentals, but only if they're placed to the right of the numbers.

As requested by benwiggy you can now create slashed figures with "+" too: "4/" = "4+"

You can create italic numbers by typing "i" before the number. I don't know if that's at all useful for figured bass but it was a spontaneous idea and easy to add…

Here's an example of the new version:
Bach_Lass ihn kreuzigen.png
(79.05 KiB) Not downloaded yet
And a few example figures:
Figurato specimen.png
(27.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Unfortunately nothing has changed in regard to the different behaviour on Mac. What's more, with accidentals on the left side the built in contextual features have become fairly complex, which means that there might be even more things behaving differently between Windows and Mac. I hope I'll be able to sort this out soon but I can't promise anything.

For what it's worth, Figurato works (almost) fine with Finale 25 on Windows too.

As always, I'd be grateful for any feedback!
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by benwiggy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Marvellous, Florian. I'll do some more Mac testing. My own attempts using Text don't work so well after all, so I'm keen to give these another go.

How do you do a chord change on the same note (e.g. 4 3) using Lyrics?
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:08 pm

Thanks, Ben!
benwiggy wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 pm
How do you do a chord change on the same note (e.g. 4 3) using Lyrics?
That's a bit tricky. In Dorico, lyrics are not attached to notes but to rhythmic positions. You can activate Note input mode, advance the caret to the position and then invoke the popover. Or you can input separate notes first and consolidate them after adding the figures. That's what I prefer.

EDIT: And you'll probably need to do some respacing and shift the 'lyrics' in Engrave Mode.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by Michaelb » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:25 am

fkretlow wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:55 pm
Just to let you know: I have uploaded a new version of Figurato to the repository.

Quite a few things have changed.

I have reworked the outlines and added some weight, I hope the figures are more comfortable to read now. .....
Hello fkretlow,

I am trying your excellent 'figurato' figured-bass font and everything is working well. :D

Is there a way to add an extension line to each figure in a stack; eg 642 with eack number having an extension line? Using the space bar just adds an extension to the bottom number only.

As I use figured bass extensively, I have been yearning for this feature in Dorico. Until now I used the text feature with good results but now i think I'll be changing to 'figurato'. Thank you for all your work in offering your font, this is really excellent.

Best wishes,

Michael

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:08 pm

Michaelb wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:25 am
I am trying your excellent 'figurato' figured-bass font and everything is working well. :D
Thanks a lot, Michael. I'm very glad that the font is working well for you. Out of curiosity: Are you on Windows or on Mac?
Is there a way to add an extension line to each figure in a stack; eg 642 with eack number having an extension line? Using the space bar just adds an extension to the bottom number only.
I'm afraid I don't have a good solution for this.
You could try to input the different layers in different lines of lyrics, but you might have difficulty in getting the numbers correctly centered above each other and in getting the right vertical distance between the figures.

If you don't need too many of them you could also use glissando lines to fake the extension lines.

I have given some thought to how I could create extension lines from within the font, but so far I haven't found a good solution. Any suggestions would be welcome...
As I use figured bass extensively, I have been yearning for this feature in Dorico. Until now I used the text feature with good results but now i think I'll be changing to 'figurato'. Thank you for all your work in offering your font, this is really excellent.
You're welcome! :)
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by dankreider » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:07 am

Florian, thank you so much for your work on this.

Check out the attached zip file - it's the opening movement from the Vivaldi Gloria (not finished yet).
Figured bass.zip
(36.44 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
As you can see, the baselines need to be adjusted. I can't use Engraving Options because I have lyrics for the singers as well. Just to let you know that is something I would change.

Thanks!
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:35 am

Thank you, Dan.
You're absolutely right. The problem arises from the fact that I designed figurato with basso continuo figures above the system in mind. Of course placing them below the system is eaqually, if not more common practice. I'm planning to create a second version where the figures would be vertically aligned at the top and stacked downwards.

Changing the line height would be a possibilty although that would imply a change of the font size in existing documents. I will think about it.

In the meantime you could kind of solve the problem by moving the numbers to the topmost layer that's present in a system. Type "," (comma) to skip layers.
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:25 pm

dankreider wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:07 am
As you can see, the baselines need to be adjusted. I can't use Engraving Options because I have lyrics for the singers as well.
Come to think of it, I realized that the huge line height of Figurato was arbitrary and didn't make sense.
I've changed it now. You'll want to reduce the font size in existing documents to 50% (I recommend 9pt absolute). You should get better results now, Dan.
Michaelb wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:25 am
Is there a way to add an extension line to each figure in a stack; eg 642 with eack number having an extension line?
With the reduced line height this is now possible with lyric extension lines. You need to set the distance between lyric lines to –1/2 to get it right though, so it's not possible if you have real lyrics elsewhere in the same project. Input the layers in different lines and create the extension lines as usual. Then switch to Engrave Mode and shift the figures to the right until it looks right.
Image

I have also improved the collision avoidance between accidentals a bit. I hope you can make better use of the font now. Thanks for the feedback, guys!
The updated version is here.
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by dankreider » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Florian, thanks for your ongoing improvements. Sorry for the basic question, but... do I need to download and re-install the font?
Dan Kreider

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:07 pm

dankreider wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Florian, thanks for your ongoing improvements. Sorry for the basic question, but... do I need to download and re-install the font?
Yes. :)
Florian

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by dankreider » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:15 pm

Ok, I deleted the old version and re-installed. It looks great! I did end up doing 10-point staff-relative, since my score and parts use a very different rastral size.

Thanks!
Dan Kreider

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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by PjotrB » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:17 pm

I tried the latest version of Figurato on Mac, as Shift-X text items, and it works very nicely. Thanks Florian! One (non-urgent) question though: on Mac, chords do not stack from bottom to top, but top-down, which means that I must type e.g. 642 to obtain a 246 chord. What would happen if I opened a Mac-based project with figured bass on a Windows machine with the same version of Figurato installed? Wouldn't the figures be shown in the wrong order?
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Re: Bring on that sweet figured bass!

Post by fkretlow » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:48 am

PjotrB wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:17 pm
I tried the latest version of Figurato on Mac, as Shift-X text items, and it works very nicely. Thanks Florian! One (non-urgent) question though: on Mac, chords do not stack from bottom to top, but top-down, which means that I must type e.g. 642 to obtain a 246 chord. What would happen if I opened a Mac-based project with figured bass on a Windows machine with the same version of Figurato installed? Wouldn't the figures be shown in the wrong order?
I'm glad that it works for you, Pjotr!
Yes, this has been reported before. I'm afraid I haven't managed to solve this yet. And yes, when you open a Mac-based project with figurato on Windows the figures are shown in the 'wrong order'.
Florian

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