Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by guymichelmore » Thu May 03, 2018 4:35 pm

Well I wish Id found this thread before buying an 18 core i9 computer which will only run Windows 10 and crackles like a panful of bacon. Terrific. 40% CPU and pops every few seconds. Tried everything and nothing fixes it. Is there any hope that either Steinberg or Microsoft will resolve this?

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by venkmon » Thu May 03, 2018 5:08 pm

vinark wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 3:45 pm
venkmon wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 3:40 pm
vinark wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:51 am

Install WIn7 64 let it update once, then install audio software and keep it away from the net afterwards.I am somewhat serious! Although win 10 can run smoothly for some, it is a little bit like Russian roulette. And even if you had a perfect system, the next win10 update might break it.

Oh and your system is not affected by the bug in this thread.
Thanks. Is it possible to roll back to 7 from 10? I would assume not as I've never held a licence for 7.

Also, how do you keep plugins updated if pc isn't on the net?

I keep getting getting real-time peak spikes on the cpu meter too - would this be because my samples are on my D: drive, which is a normal spinner and cubase is installed on C: which is an SSD?

Such a headache all of this
1 No not afaik, but it can be bought cheap
2 I download them on another machine or you can disable windows update on win 7 (not on 10)
3 No my samples are on a normal HD too.

If you make a backup image of 10, you can install win7 64 pro and if I remember correctly it will work for 30 days without a key. Your win 10 key might work but I am not sure.
What is your audio card/device?

Thanks for the advise.

Just a crappy focusrite 2i2

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by venkmon » Thu May 03, 2018 8:40 pm

guymichelmore wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:35 pm
Well I wish Id found this thread before buying an 18 core i9 computer which will only run Windows 10 and crackles like a panful of bacon. Terrific. 40% CPU and pops every few seconds. Tried everything and nothing fixes it. Is there any hope that either Steinberg or Microsoft will resolve this?
That really sucks - I feel your pain. At the end of the day, it's Steinberg who need to sort this, not Microsoft.

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by guymichelmore » Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 am

Just for the record for anyone else looking for big fast multicore solution that really works, the other rig I have runs a Xeon 14 core 2673v3 and windows 7 and it is flawless. 25% cpu on a huge template 1700 tracks with VSL EP and CB9 running on the same machine. What an idiot I am! Should have stuck with that.

I think Steinberg should really think about putting this warning in the tech requirements as more and more W10 i9 multicore computers wont run CB. Currently their tech requirements are simply not true.

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by st33l » Fri May 04, 2018 2:08 pm

Is it microsoft or Steinberg that have to do something about this multicore system thing?
I Think this is redicilous that we have such problem. Invest in an expensive computer cus we want a better daw, and then it shows that there is limits in the software/OS that make the daw worse instead. If it is MS problem then i cant understand how it was better in win 7 since it is not new. This new win 10 should be far better, at least better for us who upgraded everything and had the hope of it been better than the older OS. IF its Steinbergs problem i also dont understand why it was better in win 7. Im not a technical guy but when people say it has something with mmcss to do then i gyess its MS to blame...or am i wrong?
Cubase 10.0.40 Pro, Apollo x6, 32gb corsair 3200 mhz ram, i7 7820x skylake x @4200mhz, samsung ssd:s and nvme.2 drives, 2x UAD2 solo, audient 880, rane hc6, LA-610 MKII, warm audio EQP-WA, Presonus central station, Kramer guitars, Esp guitars, Axe FX II, Kempers, Matrix and Mesa amps, Marshall and Randall 4x12 cabinets, Neumann, shure, akg mics, Ebs basspreamp, Roland td12 ddrumkit, Superior Drummer 3.12. Windows 10 64bit

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by venkmon » Fri May 04, 2018 2:33 pm

st33l wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Is it microsoft or Steinberg that have to do something about this multicore system thing?
I Think this is redicilous that we have such problem. Invest in an expensive computer cus we want a better daw, and then it shows that there is limits in the software/OS that make the daw worse instead. If it is MS problem then i cant understand how it was better in win 7 since it is not new. This new win 10 should be far better, at least better for us who upgraded everything and had the hope of it been better than the older OS. IF its Steinbergs problem i also dont understand why it was better in win 7. Im not a technical guy but when people say it has something with mmcss to do then i gyess its MS to blame...or am i wrong?
Its steinbergs issue. MS will always be moving the goal posts, with updates, etc. Cubase means nothing to them, its merely a drop in the ocean. Steinberg need to keep on top of MS architecture and updates and keep tweaking with their own updates. At the moment it's a joke.

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by ANeeman » Fri May 04, 2018 11:41 pm

Are these dropouts in Cubase 9 too, or only in 9.5?
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by MBI » Sat May 05, 2018 12:40 am

Why can I use all 20 logical cores on my i7-6950X without having issues with dropouts? The latency setting usually is 128 samples.
PC-HW: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1 | Intel i7-6950X @4.3 GHz (WC) | 64 GB Kingston HyperX | EVGA GTX 1050Ti | 2x Samsung SSD 850 Pro 2TB

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by guymichelmore » Sun May 06, 2018 4:25 pm

Drop outs on 9 and 9.5. re the 6950 - good question. It may only become obvious at higher processor loads or there's more to this

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by MBI » Sun May 06, 2018 8:03 pm

guymichelmore wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 4:25 pm
Drop outs on 9 and 9.5. re the 6950 - good question. It may only become obvious at higher processor loads or there's more to this
This system can also handle relativley high workload on all 20 logical cores and I haven't even disabled the power-saving features in the BIOS. I only use a "High performance" Power Plan setting in Windows wich is automatically switched by Process Lasso when i start Cubase.
PC-HW: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1 | Intel i7-6950X @4.3 GHz (WC) | 64 GB Kingston HyperX | EVGA GTX 1050Ti | 2x Samsung SSD 850 Pro 2TB

AUDIO/MIDI-HW: RME Fireface UFX+ | Steinberg MIDEX 8 | 2x Genelec 8330 & 1x Genelec 7350 | Universal Audio UAD-2 Octo & Quad | 2x TC Electronic PowerCore Express | Mackie 1642-VLZ PRO | Mackie Control Universal Pro | Novation 61 SL MkII | Novation Nocturn | Roland XV-5050 | Access Virus Rack XL | Alesis DM Pro | Jomox AiR Base 99

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Denis van der Velde » Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 am

The only way you can / could get lower latency then 128 is by setting hypertrading to OFF in the bios....
I7 8core 16tread 32gb Aopen Board, SSD Samsung. C10,W10,Halion6,Groove Agent5,etc.
Running on 8ms Latency with a Soundblaster XFi Pro. Yamaha MW12c USB mixer.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Joss » Tue May 08, 2018 11:52 am

guymichelmore wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:35 pm
Well I wish Id found this thread before buying an 18 core i9 computer which will only run Windows 10 and crackles like a panful of bacon. Terrific. 40% CPU and pops every few seconds. Tried everything and nothing fixes it. Is there any hope that either Steinberg or Microsoft will resolve this?
There are a couple of tweeks in the BIOS that might help. I got these from support:

Intel SpeedStep
Turbo Mode
CPU C-States

Make sure those three are disabled. I think the C-States on did the most for me.

Also, limiting the number of cores used by Cubase can help. See this article, but support showed me a registry edit which is the better way of doing it. Ask them as I am not sure how they worked out the number.

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... CPU-setups

Finally, there is a problem with Dropbox, of all things. One of the dropbox DLLs can cause issues. Just turn off dropbox sync while working, if you have it.

None of this is a perfect solution, but it may get you out of the mud!
Cubase Pro, 14-core i9, 64gb Ram, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Windows 10, SSDs everywhere, Samsung CF701 34 monitor - well, you got to spoil yourself!

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Joss » Tue May 08, 2018 11:55 am

st33l wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Is it microsoft or Steinberg that have to do something about this multicore system thing?
I Think this is redicilous that we have such problem. Invest in an expensive computer cus we want a better daw, and then it shows that there is limits in the software/OS that make the daw worse instead. If it is MS problem then i cant understand how it was better in win 7 since it is not new. This new win 10 should be far better, at least better for us who upgraded everything and had the hope of it been better than the older OS. IF its Steinbergs problem i also dont understand why it was better in win 7. Im not a technical guy but when people say it has something with mmcss to do then i gyess its MS to blame...or am i wrong?
It is a real mix, to be honest. MS have introduced some issues with Windows 10 and the way it is handling audio. PLEASE don't ask me for details - someone pointed me to a MS dev discussion that was SO over my head!!!

However, it is something that is messing things up, not just Cubase, and they are looking at how it is fixed. Maybe in Redstone 4 (April update)? I haven't updated yet, so I have no idea.
Cubase Pro, 14-core i9, 64gb Ram, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Windows 10, SSDs everywhere, Samsung CF701 34 monitor - well, you got to spoil yourself!

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Joss » Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 am

Denis van der Velde wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 am
The only way you can / could get lower latency then 128 is by setting hypertrading to OFF in the bios....
In my case with a 14-core i9, turning of hyperthreading made no difference. Disabling C-States did, however
Cubase Pro, 14-core i9, 64gb Ram, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Windows 10, SSDs everywhere, Samsung CF701 34 monitor - well, you got to spoil yourself!

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by MBI » Tue May 08, 2018 12:40 pm

Joss wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 am
Denis van der Velde wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 am
The only way you can / could get lower latency then 128 is by setting hypertrading to OFF in the bios....
In my case with a 14-core i9, turning of hyperthreading made no difference. Disabling C-States did, however
I could also work on my system with a latency of 32 samples, but not with the same amount of real-time workload (VSTi's/PlugIns).

The overall performance in Cubase becomes significantly worse if i deactivate HT.
Besides, using Soundblaster or a professional Audio-Interface can make a big difference in terms of Audio-Performance.
PC-HW: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1 | Intel i7-6950X @4.3 GHz (WC) | 64 GB Kingston HyperX | EVGA GTX 1050Ti | 2x Samsung SSD 850 Pro 2TB

AUDIO/MIDI-HW: RME Fireface UFX+ | Steinberg MIDEX 8 | 2x Genelec 8330 & 1x Genelec 7350 | Universal Audio UAD-2 Octo & Quad | 2x TC Electronic PowerCore Express | Mackie 1642-VLZ PRO | Mackie Control Universal Pro | Novation 61 SL MkII | Novation Nocturn | Roland XV-5050 | Access Virus Rack XL | Alesis DM Pro | Jomox AiR Base 99

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Joss » Tue May 08, 2018 12:58 pm

MBI wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:40 pm

I could also work on my system with a latency of 32 samples, but not with the same amount of real-time workload (VSTi's/PlugIns).

The overall performance in Cubase becomes significantly worse if i deactivate HT.
Besides, using Soundblaster or a professional Audio-Interface can make a big difference in terms of Audio-Performance.
I am getting very mixed results at the moment. I am using a Clarett 8pre Thunderbolt. So, for instance, I can load a Hollywood Orchestra with 20+ instances of PLay and that works well.

But heavy latency devices like Ozone 8 cause me headaches. And I am getting lagging if I have too many windows open.

I can't get down to 32 - as soon as I open an audio channel to input, it goes nuts.

So, a very confused picture at the moment.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by MBI » Tue May 08, 2018 1:53 pm

Actually 64 samples should be more than low enough for most usecases anyway. In my case only the UAD-PlugIns can't work below 64 samples.
PC-HW: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1 | Intel i7-6950X @4.3 GHz (WC) | 64 GB Kingston HyperX | EVGA GTX 1050Ti | 2x Samsung SSD 850 Pro 2TB

AUDIO/MIDI-HW: RME Fireface UFX+ | Steinberg MIDEX 8 | 2x Genelec 8330 & 1x Genelec 7350 | Universal Audio UAD-2 Octo & Quad | 2x TC Electronic PowerCore Express | Mackie 1642-VLZ PRO | Mackie Control Universal Pro | Novation 61 SL MkII | Novation Nocturn | Roland XV-5050 | Access Virus Rack XL | Alesis DM Pro | Jomox AiR Base 99

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Denis van der Velde » Wed May 09, 2018 8:32 am

The Soundblaster Xfi is a good card and goes to 1ms and runs like a charm. Most cases the CPU load and use of many VSTi/VST plugins will run the processorload over multicore's. The Soundblaster Driver is as steasy as can be, a good test is Wavelab and a very very low latency setting, it works. But like all are struggling because they want and Processorload/VSTi/VST and Low Latency. The middle is about 8ms of latency, where on a modern machine i have plenty speed left and no probs. There was a post that a users found 8ms not enough... and because of his classical music education and use of protools was debunking Cubase for not having a lower latency. So i quess it is more up to the user. I say 8ms latency and a speedy system is what is a good middle road. Also expensive soundcards can have BAD drivers. And USB is not as fast as you think. Dropping an internal card might save you headroom for latency en speed... For instance many users have a Focusrite USB Audio, well the drivers where so bad i dropped it straight back to the SB and sticked with that. The Drivers are sometimes more important then the audio divice...
MBI wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:40 pm
Joss wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 am
Denis van der Velde wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 am
The only way you can / could get lower latency then 128 is by setting hypertrading to OFF in the bios....
Besides, using Soundblaster or a professional Audio-Interface can make a big difference in terms of Audio-Performance.
I7 8core 16tread 32gb Aopen Board, SSD Samsung. C10,W10,Halion6,Groove Agent5,etc.
Running on 8ms Latency with a Soundblaster XFi Pro. Yamaha MW12c USB mixer.
Behringer TRUTH B2031A active studiomonitors. Sony MDR-V900 Headphones.
Steinberg CC121 Controller. Mackie Control Pro.

Denis van der Velde
http://www.curioza.com
AAMS Auto Audio Mastering System for Windows

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Joss » Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am

Denis van der Velde wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:32 am
There was a post that a users found 8ms not enough... and because of his classical music education and use of protools was debunking Cubase for not having a lower latency. So i quess it is more up to the user
I have had similar problems for different reasons. Aside from music, I also do voiceovers. Hearing even the tiniest delay is really offputting.

However, this is not a major problem with interfaces like the Focusrite because they have internal DSP and a good mix/monitoring system.

I did try the Presonus Quantum with Cubase. That has no internal mix, and despite their boasts of zero latency, it was just impossible. Used with Studio One, it was better, and just about passable, but not comfortable like direct monitoring.

I dream of the day when this is all as easy as it was with a good old analogue multi-track! haha
Cubase Pro, 14-core i9, 64gb Ram, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Windows 10, SSDs everywhere, Samsung CF701 34 monitor - well, you got to spoil yourself!

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Denis van der Velde » Tue May 15, 2018 10:58 am

With voiceovers a latency of 8ms is ok.
As long as you dont hear double voices.

Most of the time this is caused by direct input and delay of latency output.

I do voiceover over video all the time with 8ms of delay.
As long i dont have double sound of the voice (it is ok).
Joss wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am
Denis van der Velde wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:32 am
There was a post that a users found 8ms not enough... and because of his classical music education and use of protools was debunking Cubase for not having a lower latency. So i quess it is more up to the user
I have had similar problems for different reasons. Aside from music, I also do voiceovers. Hearing even the tiniest delay is really offputting.

However, this is not a major problem with interfaces like the Focusrite because they have internal DSP and a good mix/monitoring system.

I did try the Presonus Quantum with Cubase. That has no internal mix, and despite their boasts of zero latency, it was just impossible. Used with Studio One, it was better, and just about passable, but not comfortable like direct monitoring.

I dream of the day when this is all as easy as it was with a good old analogue multi-track! haha
I7 8core 16tread 32gb Aopen Board, SSD Samsung. C10,W10,Halion6,Groove Agent5,etc.
Running on 8ms Latency with a Soundblaster XFi Pro. Yamaha MW12c USB mixer.
Behringer TRUTH B2031A active studiomonitors. Sony MDR-V900 Headphones.
Steinberg CC121 Controller. Mackie Control Pro.

Denis van der Velde
http://www.curioza.com
AAMS Auto Audio Mastering System for Windows

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by DrWashington » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:29 am

Is there any update from Microsoft on this yet? I'm running 1803, and I think it's still an issue. I will petition them heavily, and in person if I need to (I'm a Seattle resident). This is really unacceptable for a modern OS, and seems quite arbitrary and blindingly stupid on their part, if I'm being blunt (I am). I would really, really like to see this issue resolved ASAP. I will do anything I can from my end to help them see the light. Even if it means getting musician friends to come and picket the Redmond campus. Only half joking.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by ANeeman » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:46 am

Nope! Last update of Windows 10 does not change this situation. I sstill have dropouts.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by st33l » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:09 pm

The reason i bought a brand new PC was to have a better machine for making music. I saved for several monthes and was so happy when i had bought everything, built it and installed cubase and everything i need for music making. Then it shows no better performance at all than my old one. All my happiness of the new PC went oposite. I cant understand why its so difficult to fix this issue because it wasent there in previous version of windows. MS, take a step back and look at win7. Its a pity if i need to install an older OS when i buying a newer PC
Cubase 10.0.40 Pro, Apollo x6, 32gb corsair 3200 mhz ram, i7 7820x skylake x @4200mhz, samsung ssd:s and nvme.2 drives, 2x UAD2 solo, audient 880, rane hc6, LA-610 MKII, warm audio EQP-WA, Presonus central station, Kramer guitars, Esp guitars, Axe FX II, Kempers, Matrix and Mesa amps, Marshall and Randall 4x12 cabinets, Neumann, shure, akg mics, Ebs basspreamp, Roland td12 ddrumkit, Superior Drummer 3.12. Windows 10 64bit

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by peakae » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:43 pm

The i7 7820x you have listed in your Sig. is not affected by the reduced mmcss threads of Win10.
There is something else that bottlenecks your performance.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by st33l » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:17 pm

@peakee...isnt it like this, i copy from the start of the thread here..."Cubase is the "process", windows reserves 4 MMCSS threads, leaving 28, Cubase schedules two MMCSS threads per CPU core (real or logical), 28 divided by 2 is....14 logical cores or?...my cpu have 16 logical 8 real cores and i have HT enabled should be 16 logical cores and should be affected...or?...have i missunderstand it?
Cubase 10.0.40 Pro, Apollo x6, 32gb corsair 3200 mhz ram, i7 7820x skylake x @4200mhz, samsung ssd:s and nvme.2 drives, 2x UAD2 solo, audient 880, rane hc6, LA-610 MKII, warm audio EQP-WA, Presonus central station, Kramer guitars, Esp guitars, Axe FX II, Kempers, Matrix and Mesa amps, Marshall and Randall 4x12 cabinets, Neumann, shure, akg mics, Ebs basspreamp, Roland td12 ddrumkit, Superior Drummer 3.12. Windows 10 64bit

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