Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by uarte » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:08 pm

Romantique Tp wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:42 pm
Cubase 9.5.30 will most likely include all of that and some more. Nuendo 8's DOP definitely seems to be working much better after this update.
Hi Romantique Tp, now that you're a mod, are you confirming that 9.5.30 will be getting the improved DOP 2.0 from the latest Nuendo? Right now, as you know, we're stuck with a definitely inferior DOP 1.5. That would be really good news if we're getting parity with Nuendo on this feature!

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Romantique Tp » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:33 pm

Just saying that it will probably be working much better when performing complex tasks in a few months. I don't know if there are plans to add the Favorites and FX Chain Presets features to Cubase's DOP. Cubase's free updates tend to focus on fixing bugs and rarely add new features.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by uarte » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm

Romantique Tp wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:33 pm
Just saying that it will probably be working much better when performing complex tasks in a few months. I don't know if there are plans to add the Favorites and FX Chain Presets features to Cubase's DOP. Cubase's free updates tend to focus on fixing bugs and rarely add new features.
Thanks, this is true of course, but they have made exceptions. It just doesn't make any sense at all that Favorites, FX Chain Presets, etc., are left out of DOP in Cubase, especially when we have experienced SO MANY issues with DOP right from the beginning. They introduced 2.0 in a patch update to Nuendo, so why not Cubase too? There are other examples of when they've done this as well. Any chance you could put in a good word for it with your contacts at Steinberg? DOP was initially a train wreck, would be nice to see it settle down into something more powerful, and why not use what they've already done for Nuendo?

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Slawdawg » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:15 pm

Is there a way to turn DOP off? I have CB9 and 9.5, but have been working in 8.5 because I use auto tune graphic mode very often throughout the day and DOP is not working for that. I have a hotkey set up to get in and out of auto tune quickly, and even if DOP was functioning, it still would be way slower than my current method. I don't want to have to use auto tune (or any other plugins) through a cubase window. I would, however like to use other new features in CB9.5. On another note--is anyone else frustrated that cubase doesn't import AAF?

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Sean Ryder Williams » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:04 am

This is CRAZY... I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but hopefully Steinberg will hear us? Not sure if they are mainly focused on acquiring new customers, with these new features that are great selling pints and ideas but complicate their core of users workflow.

I've been a long time user, not as long as some but 15 years maybe...New-ish forum member. But some of these issues are really making the idea of learning a new DAW attractive. (DP or PT I guess. Logic looks easy but more like just using Garage Band.)

After years of building PCs that Cubase crushed time and time again, I purchased a Mac Book Pro a couple of years ago, and last week a "new" Mac Pro Trashcan and upgraded it to 64GBs, just for Cubase and all the problems I've had. I even got the 4 core faster clock speed vs more cores because of the lack of real multicore support. I purchased and set up Vienna Pro / Server to offload Kontakt, etc. to a cheap old PC (works well btw.)... I've made just about every upgrade possible within reason and still more issues with new releases. I've purchase old version of Mac OSX, Run CB Pro8 just so I can use the cleanup feature, etc. Again I'm sure most folks here, are right there with me... But I need my DAW to get out of my way and make, making music easier. This is ridiculous.

When I see new feature, I see new problems, like Direct Off Line Processing, which is why I am here. If I want to Normalize a group of vocal overdubs, It creates 64 GBs of edits. Last night it was 164 GB from the encrimental changes to normalization. This is on a 1TB Thunderbolt Samsung Pro SSHDD that I use on both computers, I need that space and don't want to spend $500 more dollars on HDs so I can do what I used to do without creating all these audio renderings.

Thats all, frustrated. Tired of reading blogs and manuals, and watching videos... I want to make music.

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by titchyblackcat » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:49 am

If i empty the edits folder will this make DOP run faster ?
At the moment the DOP traces back to every edit which is something like 2000 so obviously the DOP window sits there wirring away for ages.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by titchyblackcat » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 am

I've now ended up with 7Gigs in the Edit folder.
I've tried deleting evrything in the Edit folder but now the song will not load.
It gets stuck with a little window connecting media 0%
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by uarte » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:20 pm

Sorry to hear about your various struggles with this feature! I feel your pain. Until Steinberg invests more development resources into the feature to improve it, I think you'll continue to struggle with it... but at least your (and our) situations/experiences can serve as cautionary tales for other users.

This feature it NOT yet ready for heavy or complex (or frankly PRO) workflows, unfortunately, IMO. I'm not surprised that your file is not loading... issues like that should have been part of the beta process to make sure a feature gracefully recovers from missing files like that, etc...

In my personal testing, it's only okay for very simple workflows right now. The more people report their situations like you, the better IMO, as that will hopefully inspire Steinberg to accelerate working on it. The feature itself has a lot of potential and hopefully someday I can really put it to work, but in my own projects, I simply can't (and don't) trust it for anything serious right now. I've run across so many issues it's just frustrating that Steinberg didn't notice before release... but I guess their marketing department won the argument and they released an incomplete, beta IMO. Crossing fingers that Steinberg developers and decision-makers are paying attention so they can make some good decisions to make it better, sooner.

And for those that might suggest why I don't submit bug reports to Steinberg on this, I'm NOT a beta tester, and I don't have time to write up bug reports that are so obvious in this feature, that I can't and won't do their work for them. This one is too obvious. There's just too much. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover if their team just pounded the DOP feature for several solid hours with *different* workflows and common major third-party plugins and used a little creativity imagining what PRO users would use it for -- that would turn up so many obvious issues without a single bug report needed. It took me 20 minutes with the first release of 9.5 to find all sorts of obvious problems. It might have been a record for me with a new feature in Cubase like this.

Also, my experience with Steinberg support has been very disappointing, especially lately. From extremely slow response time to a support person who was literally unaware of basic functionality, I had to send him links to Steinberg's own product pages to help him understand what was going on. So their support department is several orders removed from the developers it seems, and they are not very well trained or have enough time to dig into issues. I'm sure they're all well-meaning, decent, hard-working guys, and I'm sure they want Steinberg to succeed, but IMO there is a real disconnect happening.

I wish Steinberg would fix what seem to be systemic internal issues and a marketing-driven release cycle, and it would result in better product releases. If I were involved in decision-making processes at Steinberg, I'd set aside one entire development cycle and concentrate ALL possible resources on bugfixes and stability ONLY, and forget this yearly upgrade cycle they have going on. It seems as if they are governed by this yearly update cycle that continues to produce mediocre results in many cases when it comes to new features. I get that they need to earn a certain yearly revenue, but what a breath of fresh air it would be if they publicly announced (and followed through with) an entire year ONLY on stability. Can you imagine the TRUST and CONFIDENCE the user base would gain from something like that? Product loyalty would shoot through the roof.

As an owner and user of many other DAWs, I know what's out there, and am very familiar with the pluses and minuses of various DAWs and developers. Steinberg's release cycle and development pattern (right down to their copy protection scheme) has not appeared to change much with the times -- at least on the surface. And it shows with features like DOP. I won't name names, but there are other developers that have been willing to alter their approaches in recent years or have shifted their perspectives on this and their products have really become better for it. Hoping that Steinberg will really think about its approach from top to bottom to prevent features like DOP being released so prematurely. This is Cubase PRO after all, and as a PRO, we need to get stuff done, on time, reliably, and without drama.

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by hjwinge » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:51 pm

My problem with DOP isnt that bad, but it break my workflow I have kept since good old cubase vst 5... I had a KC assign to, for example normalizing, hit the key and boom - the audiopart was normalized. Now the same keycommand is hijacked by the DOP, and after hitting the KC that just open the DOP window, I need to select/scroll to the normalize in the process menu, and then close the window. One click has turned to 4. Really unnessesary, and I want an option to use the DOP or just plain KC for the function back. The DOP is a good idea, but implemented wrong IMO.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Kidd Cabbage » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:29 pm

Seconding my problems with DOP.

I don't like that I can't just process audio without it.
Certain plug-ins (Like Image-Line Maximus, for instance) just DO NOT work with DOP - I'm presented with a black screen and that's it. Others, like Sountoys Echoboy just don't function at all
Anything that requires working with a tail (like applying a reverb) is a terrible workflow

I really hope this gets fixed soon, as this was a large reason why I upgraded to 9.5

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by oneirogen » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:38 am

.... Adding to the list:

I'd like to be able to add multiple instances of the same process/plugin to the DOP. I find it annoying if I e.g. want to make some extreme pitch shifting, that I have to pitch shift, render and pitch shift again instead of simply adding the pitch shift process twice to the audio..

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Slawdawg » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:58 am

I've been a faithful Cubase user since it's inception and have enjoyed using it. DOP will be the deal breaker for me. Let's make these kinds of features optional. I have a protools subscription only for the purpose of importing AAF for TV projects, but it seems I may have to move over to PT permanently if this is the future of Cubase. 9.5 would be a beautiful thing without this nonsense.

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Graveley » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:54 am

Amen. This feature is half baked, and a total workflow killer. So much more work to process anything now... If it even works at all.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by alexis » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:12 pm

mart wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:03 pm
Lasso wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:55 pm
agreed - something is broken, just had large e-learning project which involved pitching up and down a lot of clips and I found it to be quite unreliable where suddenly other clips were affected as well. Pretty hard to pinpoint but seems dangerous to me.
Comments from SB . . . ?
Here, after multiple reports of problems in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=250&t=127267#p693589
Romantique Tp wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:10 pm
I've been using DOP extensively for the past week and everything seems to work fine outside of the issue described by the thread starter.
Alexis

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by beanstalk40 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:46 am

Agree with all said above... The least Steinberg could do if they cant implement DOP properly is to provide an option for users to use the old offline processing method...

Too many horror stories about this feature thats actually supposed to be a Star Feature... Please fix this good people of Steinberg...
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by ulesto » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:16 pm

beanstalk40 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:46 am
Agree with all said above... The least Steinberg could do if they cant implement DOP properly is to provide an option for users to use the old offline processing method...
+1 It has messed up the ability to use RX Connect. After sending back from RX6 it asked to click 'process'. There is no process button. If I turn off auto-apply and click 'apply' manually nothing happens. Click repair and it resends the unprocessed file back to RX and oila, you get to start all over again because your work is gone. If there is a way to use this, I haven't figured it out. The old way was so simple.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by meta-redundant » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:12 am

This feature is so broken - thought I would check in on the forums to see if anyone else was having problems, and wow...

For me any of the below can happen:

--It prints noisy garbage, basically a clipped square wave.
--It makes the entire session unstable, resulting in the "a serious error has occurred..." dialog.
--It corrupts my session to the point I am unable to save.

Gosh almighty. The old way worked fine...
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Romantique Tp » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:59 am

Which plugins are you using with it?
Every time someone says "it must be easy to add/fix", a programmer dies.

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by meta-redundant » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:56 am

Romantique Tp wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:59 am
Which plugins are you using with it?
Mostly Normalize and Pitch Shift (built-in). Occasionally Izotope RX Spectral De-Noise.

But a moment ago, it locked the system before I could even choose a plugin - I just pressed F7 and got the "serious error has occurred..." message.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by titchyblackcat » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:36 am

Ive eneded up with the edite folder having 6 Gigs of edits.
I am happy with the edits and have tried to make permanent but nothing happens.
If i delete the edits folder files Cubase will not load,
Is there and way of emptying the edits folder ?
needing space of 10 Gigs for a small one song project is rediculous,
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by Evertone » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:07 pm

titchyblackcat wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:36 am
Ive eneded up with the edite folder having 6 Gigs of edits.
I looked at my project and it's only 18.12gb :?
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by BaseCu » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes, please make DOP an option that we can disable in preferences. The old method was quick, easy, and reliable. DOP, by comparison, is a real PITA.
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by uarte » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:10 pm

BaseCu wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 pm
Yes, please make DOP an option that we can disable in preferences. The old method was quick, easy, and reliable. DOP, by comparison, is a real PITA.
OR, just make DOP a lot better. Eventually, it could be a GREAT feature if they keep working on it. But right now, I agree that it falls far short. Here's to hoping for at least a long list of bugfixes for the next patch.

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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by ulesto » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:18 pm

BaseCu wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 pm
Yes, please make DOP an option that we can disable in preferences. The old method was quick, easy, and reliable.
+1!
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Re: Serious Problems With Direct Offline Processing

Post by BaseCu » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:31 pm

uarte wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:10 pm
BaseCu wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 pm
Yes, please make DOP an option that we can disable in preferences. The old method was quick, easy, and reliable. DOP, by comparison, is a real PITA.
OR, just make DOP a lot better. Eventually, it could be a GREAT feature if they keep working on it. But right now, I agree that it falls far short. Here's to hoping for at least a long list of bugfixes for the next patch.
Personally I would not use it even if it were greatly improved. For the relatively simply audio edits I make, I want a quick-and-dirty tool. And that's what it used to be.

Please make the old version an option in future releases. In this case, less was so much more. ;)
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