AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

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Rickenbacker198
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AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by Rickenbacker198 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:49 am

Anyone have a Threadripper build that works well with cubase?
Care to share the specs and results.

I’m wanting to upgrade my i7 4790K system that just doesn’t cut it on big mixes. Threadripper looks interesting.

Thanks
NB

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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by Wepsta » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:58 pm

Hi, better go with Intel 7920X 12 Core in this price range.
The Ryzen Cpu´s give you popcorn @ 70% cpu load.
http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/03/02 ... for-audio/
https://techreport.com/review/32390/amd ... eviewed/14

On an optimized X299 system you can max out the cpu to 90% without dropout like my setup.
viewtopic.php?f=217&t=131132
https://sendvid.com/3i5g2pf7
Good luck ;)
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MattiasNYC
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:41 pm

The CPU load is completely irrelevant. If you end up using 70% of your CPU but still get more processing done then who cares how much CPU you were using?

Yes, the 7920X is performing better than the 1950x, but it's also more expensive. When I looked at Newegg the 1950X was $900 and the 7920X $1,100. That's a 22% difference. At microcenter in the US the 1950x ix $800, which makes the difference 38%.

The performance difference however is much smaller. You linked to the Ryzen 7 review, and not to one including both the 7920x and the 1950x Threadripper. If you look at that comparison instead:

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/10/04 ... the-bench/

http://www.scanproaudio.info/wp-content ... p7920x.jpg
http://www.scanproaudio.info/wp-content ... -7920X.jpg

you'll see that the biggest difference is on the "VI" test, but only at a 128 sample or lower buffer. Rickenbacker said "big mixes", so if mixing is the workload then the Threadripper offers much better value even at 64 samples: 380 TR vs 410 for the Intel. But, (410-380)/380 = only an 8% improvement for at least 22% more money.
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by Rickenbacker198 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:12 am

Thanks both of you for your input.
I looked through all of it repeatedly , Wepsta that’s quite a nice build and highly optimized. Wow.

I really am an old AMD fanboy from my first DAW build a 1 ghz Athlon.
The current build , an intel 4790k is my only intel build among many.
I’d like to go back to AMD if I can. I guess it’s the musician in me .. thinking with my heart lol.

And yes I am usually mixing , with a few VIs in there but not usually more than a dozen. I can easily freeze them as well.

I tend to do a lot of group processing and use mainly waves stuff , some of their plugins are quite intensive and the 4790 just can’t handle it anymore.
Anyone have direct experience with a Threadripper build?
And can compare it to their old system?
The 1950x is what I would consider.
Are any of you are seeing latency problems with Threadripper and Cubase , which is what I’m wondering about since it’s like 2 Ryzen chips together. There will be latency added.
If not that probably the 7900x.

Thanks

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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by PeppaPig » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:47 pm

What buffer sizes do you run when mixing? Threadripper will be competitive with larger buffer sizes (256+) but seems to suffer from real time audio peaks more with smaller buffer sizes (according to benchmarks) I'm like you, I've always supported the underdog by building AMD machines and this is my first Intel since the days of overlocking Celeron 300As to a heady 450Mhz (97?) :-)
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:15 am

PeppaPig wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:47 pm
What buffer sizes do you run when mixing? Threadripper will be competitive with larger buffer sizes (256+) but seems to suffer from real time audio peaks more with smaller buffer sizes (according to benchmarks)
I don't see this. What benchmarks are you looking at?
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by TNM » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:00 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:15 am
PeppaPig wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:47 pm
What buffer sizes do you run when mixing? Threadripper will be competitive with larger buffer sizes (256+) but seems to suffer from real time audio peaks more with smaller buffer sizes (according to benchmarks)
I don't see this. What benchmarks are you looking at?
the dawbench VI tests..

polyphony on threadripper (and all ryzen) at 32/64/128 samples way lower than Intel.

Waiting for ryzen 2, it might fix this.

Not long to wait.
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:58 pm

But you should distinguish more clearly between mixing and running VI.

Rickenbacker wrote "I am usually mixing , with a few VIs in there but not usually more than a dozen. I can easily freeze them as well' which to me seems to be more about mixing than running a bunch of VIs, and even if he did run a bunch of them he's open to freezing them. So either a bigger buffer is fine, since it's mixing, or freezing is an option, and both of those suggestions are only important if he runs out of polyphony. In the case of a 1950x that's 880 voices at the tested 64 samples buffer, 1680 at 128 samples and 3180 at 256.

If that's sufficient then what's the problem?

Waiting for the next version probably means waiting until about August or so before chips are out and reviewed. That's fine of course, but there's always a new one around the corner...
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:01 pm

Rickenbacker198 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:12 am
Are any of you are seeing latency problems with Threadripper and Cubase , which is what I’m wondering about since it’s like 2 Ryzen chips together. There will be latency added.
Looking at the test results from Scan the scaling from one to two dies looks good actually.
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by PeppaPig » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 pm

Let's face it, Threadripper CPUs are extremely fast - even if they "only" achieve 85% of a top-end Intel - how many of us actually need that horsepower? You'd be getting a very, very fast CPU for a much reduced system cost compared to a top-end i7 or i9. The only risk IMHO is real time audio spikes caused by immature firmware associated with the various motherboards and interfaces, even then, they've been out a while and the issues should be sorted by now, the same could be said of Intel X299.

I refreshed by PC recently and went for X99 on purpose (self-inflicted obsolescence?) I justify my choice (my PC was built with no budget limits but with an eye on the Windows 10 MMCSS thread limit) knowing I've gone for rock-solid, reliable, known hardware. Which brings me back to one of my bugbears! It's about time Steinberg returned to publishing a recommended stable component list for Cubase.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by Nickeldome » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:28 pm

PeppaPig wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 pm
It's about time Steinberg returned to publishing a recommended stable component list for Cubase.
Next to impossible! There's so much hardware out there it's almost impossible to predict what will work good or best with Cubase? Configuring a daw for Cubase will probably always remain a painful and time consuming task. I just about concluded the testing of my new Intel I-7900X system and it took me over a month to figure out how to get it optimized! With every new computer build I can't help to come to the conclusion that the real restriction lies in the audio interface and the quality of it's drivers. The difference between my (still) current I-4770K and the new I-7900X is not so much the improved latency but rather the ability to be able to handle more instruments with the given latency/buffer size. But then you need to have all the drivers, bios and Windows optimized for Cubase usage. Steinberg will probably never offer you out of the box good, better, best configurations because the variables in components, drivers and firmware/bios versions are just to many to determine that.

The good news is there's forums like this where thousands of people are struggling with the exact same issue or questions like this and are willing to share information.
Cubase Pro - Wavelab Pro (always latest version) Windows 10 Pro 64bit / Asus TUF Mark 1 X299 / i9-7900X (at 4.3 GHZ) / 64GB RAM / Geforce GTX 1060 6G / System drive Samsung M.2 1TB 960Pro / Kontakt drives 3 x 1TB Samsung Evo / Project/Audio/Archive drive 10TB Seagate Ironwolf - Audio interface: Roland UA-1610 / External gear: Kawai MP11 / Kurzweil PC88 / Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 / Roland JV1080 / Roland D50 / Korg 01/W / Elka EK22 – Midi controllers: Roli Seabord Rise 49, SoundQuest 8port-SE / Nektar Panorama P1 / Roland Octopad II / Akai MPD18 - Main VST's: Kontakt 6 / Padshop Pro / Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.6, Trillian & Keyscape / Arturia V-collection / FXpansion BFD 3 / Toontrack Superior Drummer 3
All time user of Cubase since Atari V2 (around 1990)

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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by PeppaPig » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:59 pm

It's not impossible. Pick one single motherboard, CPU and graphics card combo that you know works and publish that (at first) as "Verified For Cubase" (there, invented the term for you) then if motherboard/GPU manufacturers want their boards verified they give Steinberg a few grand and a board/card and the devs build the box and run their standard set of tests. You could even have a latency scale based on peak real time spikes, ie VFC Gold,Silver and Bronze, Bronze being "thanks for your money but performance isn't really good enough unless for occasional use"

Gold - no real time spikes until CPUs saturated - Pro Users
Silver - some small spikes - Advanced Users
Bronze - real time spikes encountered - occasional users. The manufacturers could opt out of this award being awarded.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by Nickeldome » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:13 pm

PeppaPig wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:59 pm
It's not impossible. Pick one single motherboard, CPU and graphics card combo that you know works and publish that (at first) as "Verified For Cubase" (there, invented the term for you) then if motherboard/GPU manufacturers want their boards verified they give Steinberg a few grand and a board/card and the devs build the box and run their standard set of tests. You could even have a latency scale based on peak real time spikes, ie VFC Gold,Silver and Bronze, Bronze being "thanks for your money but performance isn't really good enough unless for occasional use"

Gold - no real time spikes until CPUs saturated - Pro Users
Silver - some small spikes - Advanced Users
Bronze - real time spikes encountered - occasional users. The manufacturers could opt out of this award being awarded.
It's still impossible because Steinberg is not affiliated to one brand of motherboard or graphics card and I'm not even beginning to mention bios, firmware and driver versions... And when would Steinberg decide for you to buy this ultimate configuration? It will take time to test and by the time Steinberg releases this, already newer, faster models will see the market.
And furthermore, how will Steinberg know what audio interface you are using and what additional hardware? And what about plugins and additional software you will have installed that could influence Steinbergs recommendation?

So I still say it's impossible!

Steinberg can go so far as claiming it works on AMD/Intel platforms and common hardware like Radeon/Nvidea and their own line of hardware. From there it's up to us, with our 'custom' configurations, to make it work.
Cubase Pro - Wavelab Pro (always latest version) Windows 10 Pro 64bit / Asus TUF Mark 1 X299 / i9-7900X (at 4.3 GHZ) / 64GB RAM / Geforce GTX 1060 6G / System drive Samsung M.2 1TB 960Pro / Kontakt drives 3 x 1TB Samsung Evo / Project/Audio/Archive drive 10TB Seagate Ironwolf - Audio interface: Roland UA-1610 / External gear: Kawai MP11 / Kurzweil PC88 / Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 / Roland JV1080 / Roland D50 / Korg 01/W / Elka EK22 – Midi controllers: Roli Seabord Rise 49, SoundQuest 8port-SE / Nektar Panorama P1 / Roland Octopad II / Akai MPD18 - Main VST's: Kontakt 6 / Padshop Pro / Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.6, Trillian & Keyscape / Arturia V-collection / FXpansion BFD 3 / Toontrack Superior Drummer 3
All time user of Cubase since Atari V2 (around 1990)

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MattiasNYC
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:11 pm

It's mostly a financial issue I bet. Setup and testing takes time. For us users, or at least most of us, it doesn't take enough time to be a problem. Most of us aren't up against the limit of the system of a build people have successfully built so our setup is pretty quick and painless, relatively speaking.

But for Steinberg it'd be really bad to promote certain brands and configurations without saying they're sure they work, which is completely different level of commitment to testing.

So, possible for sure, but hardly worth it probably....
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Re: AMD Threadripper and Cubase?

Post by mixtur » Fri May 04, 2018 1:30 am

Nickeldome wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:13 pm
PeppaPig wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:59 pm
It's not impossible. Pick one single motherboard, CPU and graphics card combo that you know works and publish that (at first) as "Verified For Cubase" (there, invented the term for you) then if motherboard/GPU manufacturers want their boards verified they give Steinberg a few grand and a board/card and the devs build the box and run their standard set of tests. You could even have a latency scale based on peak real time spikes, ie VFC Gold,Silver and Bronze, Bronze being "thanks for your money but performance isn't really good enough unless for occasional use"

Gold - no real time spikes until CPUs saturated - Pro Users
Silver - some small spikes - Advanced Users
Bronze - real time spikes encountered - occasional users. The manufacturers could opt out of this award being awarded.
It's still impossible because Steinberg is not affiliated to one brand of motherboard or graphics card and I'm not even beginning to mention bios, firmware and driver versions... And when would Steinberg decide for you to buy this ultimate configuration? It will take time to test and by the time Steinberg releases this, already newer, faster models will see the market.
And furthermore, how will Steinberg know what audio interface you are using and what additional hardware? And what about plugins and additional software you will have installed that could influence Steinbergs recommendation?

So I still say it's impossible!

Steinberg can go so far as claiming it works on AMD/Intel platforms and common hardware like Radeon/Nvidea and their own line of hardware. From there it's up to us, with our 'custom' configurations, to make it work.
It´s not impossible. Steinberg used to do it with HP (workstations) and could easily do it again.
Check this out: viewtopic.php?t=43537

A lot of third party PS_builders already certify and provide warranties for their models with specific DAW:s
That could be an option and again proves it´s possible.

That said, I doubt Steinberg will do it, but not because it´s impossible.

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