Roli & Halion

Post general topics related to HALion 6 and HALion Sonic 3 here.
echoes in the attic
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:00 am

Cool, thanks. So it sounds like I can browse through the factory library and not have to load the script every time right? It sounds like that's what you're saying but then the last part about patches that use the script threw me off. But hopefully you are effectively saying that you don't have to load the script every time you change patches, it will stay there. Yes?

Good news is that I found a way to demo again by deleting my elicenser stuff and using a different email to download a one month demo. Now i need to figure out how to load the script.

I've already found something strange though. I changed the midi channel to A2 on a program, which should respond to mpe data in bitwig (which sends channels 2-16) but it did not respond. It only responds when set to channel A1, even while set to "force mpe" which makes the device only listen to channels 2-16. Very weird. Makes no sense.

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lulu m
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:57 am

echoes in the attic wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:00 am
Cool, thanks. So it sounds like I can browse through the factory library and not have to load the script every time right? It sounds like that's what you're saying but then the last part about patches that use the script threw me off. But hopefully you are effectively saying that you don't have to load the script every time you change patches, it will stay there. Yes?

Good news is that I found a way to demo again by deleting my elicenser stuff and using a different email to download a one month demo. Now i need to figure out how to load the script.

I've already found something strange though. I changed the midi channel to A2 on a program, which should respond to mpe data in bitwig (which sends channels 2-16) but it did not respond. It only responds when set to channel A1, even while set to "force mpe" which makes the device only listen to channels 2-16. Very weird. Makes no sense.
That's not exactly what I said. A script is loaded with the program you load into a slot, if there was a script saved within it in the first place!!
A script is a block IN your program that has a reference to a script file on your disk! A program saved without a script block, will NOT load a script!!
Also browsing through the library doesn't load a script, you must load the program into a slot in Halion, before it will become active!

Sorry, I don't know much about bitwig, as I don't use it much, so I'm not a specialist here, but you must use Halion as a 'multi-timbral' instrument! That means that you must use multiple instances (16 for 16 polyphony) of a program in the slotrack. Just one instance set to midi channel A2 doesn't do it!
Halion is NOT a MPE capable synth, but you can make it work using OR note-expression (Bitwig use also note-expression, but a.f.o.i.k., only for it's own synth's, so you can't go that way) OR by using Halion as a Multi-timbral instrument.


Test it, try it and have fun with this great synth ;-)
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.60ghz / RAM: 8G / Windows 10 (64bit)
1 SSD Kingston 240 / 1 WD Caviar Black 1T / 1 WD Caviar Blue 1T / 1 WD ext usb 1.5T
DAW Cubase pro 9.5 / Motu Ultralite MKIII / ADAM F7 / Nektar Panorama P6/ Roli Seaboard Rise 25

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lulu m
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 pm

Here is a quick video of me using the Roli Seaboard Rise with Halion 6 Standalone as a multi-timbral instrument!

https://youtu.be/3mLuYOCaNhs

Enjoy.
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.60ghz / RAM: 8G / Windows 10 (64bit)
1 SSD Kingston 240 / 1 WD Caviar Black 1T / 1 WD Caviar Blue 1T / 1 WD ext usb 1.5T
DAW Cubase pro 9.5 / Motu Ultralite MKIII / ADAM F7 / Nektar Panorama P6/ Roli Seaboard Rise 25

echoes in the attic
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:13 pm

lulu m wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:57 am
echoes in the attic wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:00 am
Cool, thanks. So it sounds like I can browse through the factory library and not have to load the script every time right? It sounds like that's what you're saying but then the last part about patches that use the script threw me off. But hopefully you are effectively saying that you don't have to load the script every time you change patches, it will stay there. Yes?

Good news is that I found a way to demo again by deleting my elicenser stuff and using a different email to download a one month demo. Now i need to figure out how to load the script.

I've already found something strange though. I changed the midi channel to A2 on a program, which should respond to mpe data in bitwig (which sends channels 2-16) but it did not respond. It only responds when set to channel A1, even while set to "force mpe" which makes the device only listen to channels 2-16. Very weird. Makes no sense.
That's not exactly what I said. A script is loaded with the program you load into a slot, if there was a script saved within it in the first place!!
A script is a block IN your program that has a reference to a script file on your disk! A program saved without a script block, will NOT load a script!!
Also browsing through the library doesn't load a script, you must load the program into a slot in Halion, before it will become active!

Sorry, I don't know much about bitwig, as I don't use it much, so I'm not a specialist here, but you must use Halion as a 'multi-timbral' instrument! That means that you must use multiple instances (16 for 16 polyphony) of a program in the slotrack. Just one instance set to midi channel A2 doesn't do it!
Halion is NOT a MPE capable synth, but you can make it work using OR note-expression (Bitwig use also note-expression, but a.f.o.i.k., only for it's own synth's, so you can't go that way) OR by using Halion as a Multi-timbral instrument.


Test it, try it and have fun with this great synth ;-)
Hey, I really appreciate your answers. Ok so my fear was correct. Every time you load a new preset from the factory, you have to load the script again to use mpe.

As far as your comment about needing multiple instances as a multi-timbral instrument, yes I know that, however the first note sent by bitwig in mpe mode is always to channel 2, so it should receive the first note if set to A2 right? I was testing to make sure that the first note was received, which it wasn't. So something very weird is going on here. A midi monitor plugin confirms that midi data is being received on channel 2 before halion, but halion only receives midi when set to A1. So strange, because all plugins (at least in VST2) will not receive midi when in mpe mode if the channel is set to channel 1 (since it sends starting with channel 2). I'll try to ask bitwig, who knows what's happening.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by heisenberg9 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:22 am

lulu m wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 pm
Here is a quick video of me using the Roli Seaboard Rise with Halion 6 Standalone as a multi-timbral instrument!

https://youtu.be/3mLuYOCaNhs
Enjoy.
Thank you for both your videos on the ROLI Seaboard RISE and Cubase.

I've been interested in these kind of controllers for years, like the Hakkum Continuum and the Madrona Labs Soundplane. But I saw Nick Batt's walkthrough of the ROLI Blocks keyboard controller and clearly saw into the potential expressiveness that you can get from one of the ROLI keyboards.

ROLI doesn't list Cubase or Nuendo as being ROLI compatible. The listing is absent. Good to see Lulu_M through your videos that it is possible. Hope that Steinberg has some keen ROLI advocates in the Marketing and Development department. ROLI promotes Logic, Abelton Live and Bitwig as ROLI compatible. Nick Batt showed it working really well with Reaper in his recent Sonic Labs video shown through the link below. If people are interested in the Seaboard but aren't quite convinced I would recommend watching the video...

https://youtu.be/jIplkkj4C-4
Andrew
--
Nuendo 10.1.0
--
Hardware related to issue tracking:
ASUS P9x79, i7-3930K CPU OC to 4.05 khz, 64 GB, combination of SSDs & HDs, Blackmagic Decklink Card with HD-SDI Monitor used in Nuendo, Firewire Card, MOTU Traveler mkIII, GTX 580 2 GB of VRAM with 2 Monitors, NVIDIA Driver 390.41 WHQL running on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit with eLicenser & iLok dongles.

For Issue tracking, the MIDI controllers used:
Mackie MCU+C4, X-Touch Compact, X-Station, nanoKEY2 for key switching & Steinberg TP, CH & AI

For issue tracking, brands or software instruments & effects commonly used:
VEPro 7, Vienna Instruments 2, MIR Pro & Suite; script heavy Kontakt Libraries such as Spitfire, Heavyocity, NI, Soniccouture, Sound Dust, also UVI Falcon & rewired Ableton Live 10, Max 7, Melodyne and Reason 8. EFX often used are by Lexicon PCM Reverbs & Effects, FabFilter, IRCAM Spat, SoundToys, Brainworks, (iZotope RX punted to the sideline), Eventide, Waves plugins, etc.

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lulu m
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:49 pm

Thank you si much for kind words and sharing, Andrew, much appreciated.
Yes the Roli Seaboard Rise is a great production tool and such a joy to play! It works very well within Cubase, once knowing how to set it up right.

Unfortunately there are still some limitations, as the +-12 pitch max pitch bed within Note-Expression (although their proper VST allow +-24) in contrast with the +-48 pitch bend for MPE, not mentioning the difficulties in playing Standalone Halion versions, but maybe Steinberg will see interest in proper support for these MPE controllers, as to MHO they should.

LuLu M
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.60ghz / RAM: 8G / Windows 10 (64bit)
1 SSD Kingston 240 / 1 WD Caviar Black 1T / 1 WD Caviar Blue 1T / 1 WD ext usb 1.5T
DAW Cubase pro 9.5 / Motu Ultralite MKIII / ADAM F7 / Nektar Panorama P6/ Roli Seaboard Rise 25

echoes in the attic
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:03 pm

Unfortunately this multi instance script can not be used in bitwig since bitwig automatically uses vst note expression instead of mpe when it detects a vst3 so it does not send multi channel data. And Halion does even have note expression modulators that bitwig uses so that’s useless. Only per voice bend bend works. Halion doesn’t even have polyphonic pressure. So bitwig and Halion is not a great combo for mpe and roli type stuff. Steinberg support has been horrendous as well and they don’t even know what im talking about when asking about modulation sources for the vst3 spec.

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lulu m
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:12 am

Dimension V is free a Halion library (H6/Sonic and SE) that is tailored for MPE instruments, like the Roli Seaboard line.

Although it’s free to use the sound library in your creative work, non commercially as well as commercially, it’ll not be allowed to commercialise this library as it is, nor commercially exploit the individual programs that it contains!

You can find the download link in the description of the video: https://youtu.be/_lNjJ7WcjOs

I hope you'll enjoy!

Happy Xmas ;-)


LuLu M
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.60ghz / RAM: 8G / Windows 10 (64bit)
1 SSD Kingston 240 / 1 WD Caviar Black 1T / 1 WD Caviar Blue 1T / 1 WD ext usb 1.5T
DAW Cubase pro 9.5 / Motu Ultralite MKIII / ADAM F7 / Nektar Panorama P6/ Roli Seaboard Rise 25

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