Roli & Halion

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lulu m
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Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:05 pm

Hi,

Does someone know if I can (and if yes, how to) setup Halion for a Roli seaboard? It would be so great to use my brand new 5D-controler with my favourite sampler ;-) Couldn't get it to work with multi channel MIDI input for the moment, while prologue can work well with it ?
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:59 am

Wel for the moment I don't see any other solution, than to initiate 16 (A1-A16) program slots with the same program. This will work. It should be great to have the 'All Cannels' midi input option, as that would be problem solved I guess.

I hope there may be a solution in the form of a Lua script, so I can make an Multidimensional polyphonic expression (MPE)instrument library ;-) I'll dive into that soon!
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:07 am

Yes there is a Lua script solution to load the same instrument into the 16 slots at a lightening speed :-) Took me 15 minutes to understand how and to implement. Lua and Halion 6 is so cool. Next thing to do...., a MPE instrument for Seaboard lovers ;-)
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:04 pm

Can you tell me how this Lua script is called?
Or if it's a personal script, would you mind sharing it?
I am now demoing Halion and trying to figure how can I make it works with MPE or in voice per channel mode.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:28 pm

marmess wrote:Can you tell me how this Lua script is called?
Or if it's a personal script, would you mind sharing it?
I am now demoing Halion and trying to figure how can I make it works with MPE or in voice per channel mode.
I'm ally sorry for the delay, as I never received a notification of your post!

The script is a custom one, so create a new script module in your patch and put this in:

function onLoad()
prog=this.program
--Load it into the slots
for t=2, 16 do
this.parent.instance:getSlot(t):setProgram(prog)
end

This will load the selected program into your slots for MPE


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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

lulu m wrote: The script is a custom one, so create a new script module in your patch and put this in:

function onLoad()
prog=this.program
--Load it into the slots
for t=2, 16 do
this.parent.instance:getSlot(t):setProgram(prog)
end

This will load the selected program into your slots for MPE


Lucien
Thanks for this. My demo expired so I can't try it right now. I did ask for another 30 days demo.

Looking at your code, I understand that it works well when you load a program. When you re-work and tweak something, I guess you have save the program and reload it?
Am I right?

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:13 pm

Only if you change something in the code, otherwise all modifications will express immediately.
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:35 pm

It seems pretty good then! Thanks for sharing this!
It just needed an extra «end» at the end to make it work. So :

function onLoad()
prog=this.program
--Load it into the slots
for t=2, 16 do
this.parent.instance:getSlot(t):setProgram(prog)
end
end

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:31 pm

The post above seems like it makes copies of the program when a program is created. How does the script know to sync parameters?

Are you sure that when you tweak a parameter (like filter cutoff or res for example), That the same change will occur immediately in the copies, such that automation on one will also trigger the parameter movements on the copies? Even things like loading new waveforms?

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:25 pm

I already asked this question and this has already been answered by the person who wrote this code.
With all the tests I did, it has been working really well.
Only if you change something in the code, otherwise all modifications will express immediately.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:35 pm

Sorry if this was already answered but I'm just being super cautious because my decision to buy Halion relies on this script working as it sounds.

So to confirm:
It creates a bunch of copies of the program and when you do anything it also does those changes to the equivalent parameters of the copies immediately such as:
-If you load a sample into the first slot, it will load that sample into all copy programs immediately?
-when you tweak or automate a parameter such as a filter cutoff on the first program, the values of all equivalent filters in the copies change along with it in a way that is smooth and not stepped or anything? I'm just amazed if it can track the changes that quickly.

One last thing to do with using a roli seaboard. In order to use the y axis, is it possible to modulate parameters in Halion with cc74? And like the question above, it's only necessary to set up that modulation in the first slot I guess because it's replicates immediately in all others?

Don't mean to be skeptical, just cautious! It seems too good to be true for such a little script. :)

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:35 pm

Yes, it works for all this.
In term of smoothness with cc74, I guess it is, but I didn't dig to know if it was super smooth though.
You need to know it only works using note per channel DAW. It doesn't in Bitwig for instance (but that's maybe another subject).
I was in the same situation you are. Thought about selling my halion 5 version but I finally did the upgrade because it works well in multichannel mode with my Roli Lightpad.
But to be cautious, just try demoing it and try by yourself. If your demo is expired, ask for another, this is what I did. I wrote to licensing support on my using my account.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am

What do you mean it doesn't work with bitwig? When you hit force mpe mode on a plugin in bitwig it rotates the midi channels of the clips starting with channel 2. So effectively it splits the notes per channel (for overlapping notes anyways). The bitwig method doesn't store the midi channel that was originally played with each note but rotates the channels based on how many notes overlap, which has its own issues but works mostly.

I did demo it for a while and Halion did pitch each note separately even without forcing mpe, which was cool, but aftertouch didn't work and I didn't figure out how to modulate with cc74. After my demo expired I realized that Halion aftertouch is channel aftertouch and I must have had the instruments in channel 1 (if that's the default?). Can you tell me how you use cc74 as a modulator though?

I will ask for another demo period but I had a frustrating experience trying to contact support and eventually gave up before. Also I am going to need to switch computers soon and might be a month or more without a computer at all due to traveling. So I might not demo again for a while.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:34 am

What do you mean it doesn't work with bitwig? When you hit force mpe mode on a plugin in bitwig it rotates the midi channels of the clips starting with channel 2. So effectively it splits the notes per channel (for overlapping notes anyways). The bitwig method doesn't store the midi channel that was originally played with each note but rotates the channels based on how many notes overlap, which has its own issues but works mostly.
Ok, interesting, I didn't what bitwig was doing with "force mpe". It's pretty clear when I use contact.
From what I read :
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... l#p6756206
It looks to me that "Voice note channel" does not work well in Bitwig. But it does really well with mainstage of logic for instance.
I experience the same thing with U-He stuff for instance.
I did demo it for a while and Halion did pitch each note separately even without forcing mpe, which was cool, but aftertouch didn't work and I didn't figure out how to modulate with cc74. After my demo expired I realized that Halion aftertouch is channel aftertouch and I must have had the instruments in channel 1 (if that's the default?). Can you tell me how you use cc74 as a modulator though?
I just assign CC74 and that's it.
I will ask for another demo period but I had a frustrating experience trying to contact support and eventually gave up before. Also I am going to need to switch computers soon and might be a month or more without a computer at all due to traveling. So I might not demo again for a while.
Yes, ask support, it took me 2-3 days to have an answer and my demo but I was able to try it before buying it. Explaining why you need to try it again, they will help you with this.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:38 am

Haha, I asked how to assign cc74 and you said just assign cc74! But thats what I don't know how to do! I didn't see it as a modulator source in the mid matrix so I must be missing something. Don't have my demo back yet. Just want to make sure you can use a cc as a modulator (as opposed to midi learning a parameter which is different.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:53 pm

Midi controller -> CC74 in the modulators matrix works.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:51 pm

marmess wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:35 pm
But to be cautious, just try demoing it and try by yourself. If your demo is expired, ask for another, this is what I did. I wrote to licensing support on my using my account.
So I took your advice and tried contacting support to ask for another demo period. They replied saying that it was impossible to give more demo time. I said that is weird because I've been told by others that they've received another demo, so why couldn't I? They never answered me after that. So then I brought it up with Mattias in a thread on KVR. He said the same thing. Impossible to get more than 30 days demo. I said I just need to check a few things and can't purchase until I've confirmed some things. But no response. I even posted a thread about it in the presales forum here. No response to that either. Nobody will answer why they have granted a second demo to some people and not others.

It seems Steinberg support and staff just don't care about making a sale. The inconsistency is troublesome as well. Who did you email with your request? Maybe different departments give different answers?

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:20 pm

The roli seaboard works all fine with Halion 6 !!

I experimented with it for some time now, working on a 5dim instrument, with macro and luma code, and created about some 30 new sounds with ALL the 5 dimensions.
Halion offers you to do it all, although you have to learn some tweaking parameters, like offsets in the matrix to have the cc74, and after touch working the way you want it to ;-)

I might do a video soon on me creating a sound from scratch, for my library with the roli, but couldn't find the time yet. If I do, I'll post the link to it here.

One thing important is to set the MPE on off in the Roli dashboard, and multi channel to on (1-16), pitch to 24. If not cc74 will not work properly (touches on the upper parts of the keys will not soud like those on the lower parts)

In short.. Halion and Roli work very well. Of course, direct integrated mpe support would be welcome (no need to create the 16 instances and mpe protocol supported) but maybe in a future upgrade? ;-)

LuLu
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by marmess » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:38 am

echoes in the attic wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:51 pm
So I took your advice and tried contacting support to ask for another demo period. They replied saying that it was impossible to give more demo time.
It's truth that they cannot give you more time but for me, they manage to give another code and it gave me a 25 hours demo (it 25 hours of usage). I think it unlock all steinberg product but I am not sure, I haven't try other products.

Well, I have been told by «steinberg@yamaha.ca»
«We cannot extend the trial period for a long set of time but I can get you 25 hours of test time with this code to be used in the elicenser control center».

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:45 am

Thanks for that quote and email address. Perhaps they will give me a different answer.

Another question I have. Is it possible to load the lua script at a level above the program (can't remember what it's called, combi maybe) and be able to change presets while still have the lua script active? And if so, when you change an entire program, do the copies change as well? OR do you have to delete them all and put the script there again. Can you change combis with the lua script active and does it copy the combis?

Really wish I could try all this myself.

thanks

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:49 am

echoes in the attic wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:45 am
Thanks for that quote and email address. Perhaps they will give me a different answer.

Another question I have. Is it possible to load the lua script at a level above the program (can't remember what it's called, combi maybe) and be able to change presets while still have the lua script active? And if so, when you change an entire program, do the copies change as well? OR do you have to delete them all and put the script there again. Can you change combis with the lua script active and does it copy the combis?

Really wish I could try all this myself.

thanks
Lua script is on a program level so, as far of I know, can't be put in a higher level.
All changes made to a program, are immediately for all the instances (16 for the roli).
For the combis, I do't know, never worked with it so far.
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:03 am

Thanks for the answer above. I'm still uncertain though whether you can change presets/programs and keep the lua script loaded. When you load a new program does it wipe out the script and therefor you have to paste it again n every time for a new presets? I thought someone said you could change a program and it would do the same for all 15 copies. Or maybe that was just for waveforms and samples.

Sorry for all the questions. I sent a request for the additional 25 hours demo time to the address given above and they flat out said no they can't do that. So I guess they just were having friendly day when you asked. It's really annoying to have to ask so many questions and not just be able to try it myself.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:56 am

echoes in the attic wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:03 am
Thanks for the answer above. I'm still uncertain though whether you can change presets/programs and keep the lua script loaded. When you load a new program does it wipe out the script and therefor you have to paste it again n every time for a new presets? I thought someone said you could change a program and it would do the same for all 15 copies. Or maybe that was just for waveforms and samples.

Sorry for all the questions. I sent a request for the additional 25 hours demo time to the address given above and they flat out said no they can't do that. So I guess they just were having friendly day when you asked. It's really annoying to have to ask so many questions and not just be able to try it myself.
Well, I KNOW it works, as I'm working with Halion/Halion Sonic+SE/Padshop/Retrologue in combination with the Roli Seaboard for some time now.

If using the lua script with Halion, and you have 16 instances of the program, you only click on the 'reload' button in the interface and it is immediately active for all the loaded instances!! The modified script will of course also be loaded automatically with other programs that use the same script, as it is stored on your disk.

The 16 instances of your program, you ONLY need if you're using Halion (or Sonic or SE) as a Standalone instrument in combination with the Roli. When using it inside Cubase (or other DAW that uses note expression) You better use only 1 instance of the program, but need to set the midi or instrument track to transform the incoming midi controller data to note expression data, and check the rotate midi channels button! This way you can use MPE instruments like the Roli or Lins etc.. with all VST3 instruments that support note expression! (although not always all dimensions, like the 'lift' modifier [note off] is not presented as a modifier in retrologue or padshop?!?)

As I said before, I'm actually thinking of doing a video on all the tips and tricks I discovered so far in using the Seaboard with Halion and Cubase in general.

Stay tuned..... ;-)
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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by echoes in the attic » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:35 pm

lulu m wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:56 am
echoes in the attic wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:03 am
Thanks for the answer above. I'm still uncertain though whether you can change presets/programs and keep the lua script loaded. When you load a new program does it wipe out the script and therefor you have to paste it again n every time for a new presets? I thought someone said you could change a program and it would do the same for all 15 copies. Or maybe that was just for waveforms and samples.

Sorry for all the questions. I sent a request for the additional 25 hours demo time to the address given above and they flat out said no they can't do that. So I guess they just were having friendly day when you asked. It's really annoying to have to ask so many questions and not just be able to try it myself.
Well, I KNOW it works, as I'm working with Halion/Halion Sonic+SE/Padshop/Retrologue in combination with the Roli Seaboard for some time now.

If using the lua script with Halion, and you have 16 instances of the program, you only click on the 'reload' button in the interface and it is immediately active for all the loaded instances!! The modified script will of course also be loaded automatically with other programs that use the same script, as it is stored on your disk.

The 16 instances of your program, you ONLY need if you're using Halion (or Sonic or SE) as a Standalone instrument in combination with the Roli. When using it inside Cubase (or other DAW that uses note expression) You better use only 1 instance of the program, but need to set the midi or instrument track to transform the incoming midi controller data to note expression data, and check the rotate midi channels button! This way you can use MPE instruments like the Roli or Lins etc.. with all VST3 instruments that support note expression! (although not always all dimensions, like the 'lift' modifier [note off] is not presented as a modifier in retrologue or padshop?!?)

As I said before, I'm actually thinking of doing a video on all the tips and tricks I discovered so far in using the Seaboard with Halion and Cubase in general.

Stay tuned..... ;-)
Sorry I couldn't follow any of this. I don't use cubase though, I use Bitwig. So none of those track settings are there. There's no note expression in bitwig, only the mpe expression. So no transforming anything.

I'd have to use the script in bitwig though since although the pitch can be bent per note, the modulations don't seem to respond. So what I'm trying to understand now is can I load the Lua script and then change presets, while keeping no tue Lua script loaded? Or do you have to load the script again every time you change a preset (or program I guess as it's called).
Thanks.

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Re: Roli & Halion

Post by lulu m » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:33 pm

The lua script is loaded automatically within the program (or sound or patch, whatever you like to call it) It uses a lua script block with a reference to the script file stored on your disk. So you can modify whatever you like in a sound or the script, and that will become active right away! When properly saved, all sounds that uses the same script, will have the latest script version automatically loaded and ready to go.

I hope this will help you?

LuLu
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