An open plea to Steinberg

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
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karlito
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by karlito » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:16 am

AlakaLazlo wrote:+1000 I'm voting no with my wallet this time.
+1000

I am skipping 8.5 too, and I am not holding my breath regarding 9 either.
Unless Steinberg/Yamaha changes gears, that's it for me.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by cpechet1 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:20 am

Gratified that 'VST Transit: Requirements and Log-in Issues' is at the top of the knowledgebase list. Dear god.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by RecordForHim » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:36 am

+1000000
I wholeheartedly agree. When I first got Cubase 7, back in 2013, the program crashed on me right out of the box. Only after the bug fixes was it reasonably stable. I'd expect a program to have a few bugs scattered throughout, but I wouldn't expect them to necessarily affect core stability in such a noticeable way. Anyway, it would be nice if Steinberg would focus on bug fixes rather than new features.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Plato » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:15 am

+1

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by vespesian » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:21 am

Features (which I like - actually, I think *everybody* likes - eg., track versions are amazing) and bug resolution do not have to be mutually exclusive....but I think the planners have to be crystal clear in their strategy to tackle both, and perhaps invest a little more time explaining this to the customer base - if anything, to forestall the kind of vitriol which increasingly seems to infect DAW forums everywhere, and gets no-one anywhere.

{An idea - how about a way to indicate how bugs are prioritized ? Like, say for example, 4 levels - now, soon, later, laterlater?}

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Przemek K. » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:35 am

Definitely a +10000000000000

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by MovingWaves » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:25 am

+1
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Jeff Price » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:31 am

New features should be left for the full number releases like 9. All point releases should primarily be bug fixes like any other program out there. Once the bugs are squashed then add in new stuff. When programs crash while loading or media bay issues and core stability are the problems. How does adding new features (cloud functions, etc) create a better program?
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by sonicstate » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:44 am

Cubase is not very stable DAW. It has a lot of features, it is best DAW in MIDI area, but it crashes too easily with plugins. Audio routing is outdated. Generic Remote needs updating with all new features. And what troubles me the most is freezing on exit. With 8.0.30 freezing was gone if project was closed before quitting. Now with 8.5 freezing is back again for me, I cannot even kill Cubase anymore in Win10 via task manager, and must restart every time I restart Cubase. Why, oh why is Steinberg unable to make a software that quits properly when you click close???
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Mike001 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:51 am

I just wish it would work as it should.
No Bugs!

Interestingly in this months Computer Music mag in the welcome section it mentions how the main DAW developers are trying to outdo each other with the generosity of their free point updates.
Bitwig, Logic, Cakewalk, Sonar, Fl, Ableton etc.

Not a mention of Steinberg.
mmmmmmm wonder why. :cry:
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by HowlingUlf » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:03 pm

+1

Do as Microsoft did with windows 9, skip Cubase 9 and do the right thing with Cubase 10.
I'm not sure what Microsoft actually did but at a distance it looked like it wasn't all bad, which is all besides the point?

Back to Cubase! Just postpone all the plans for C9 and keep them on your hard drives in Hamburg or at least put them on the back burner.
Get 95% of the issues ironed out even if it takes one or two years and get the most rock stabelestingest DAW on the market with just about no crap in the code. Would the audio industry and community notice? Ya betcha! Would the competition cry all the way to the bank? Is a bear catholic? Does the Poop sh!t in the woods?

Time for a timeout. Regroup and attack again.

The version(s) following that would be much easier to maintain and the users will ... shut up! :lol:
Now think about adding new features on top of that must be a blast for everybody?
All this while the competition is crying all the way to the bank and the industry takes notice ...
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by GargoyleStudio » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:08 pm

I think there's a few things in this version that I like so I'm sure I'll be upgrading in the new year.

BUT, +1 for Steinberg sorting out the myriad bugs... It would be heaven :)

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by ckon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:20 pm

cpechet1 wrote:Gratified that 'VST Transit: Requirements and Log-in Issues' is at the top of the knowledgebase list. Dear god.
Agree +1

Not talking bugs but I wonder how much time was wasted on also making an upload to soundcloud option in the export, I mean really?! I also wonder about the turn around of coder employees and continuity, old leave & new arrive while try to work out whats going on with attempts to understand with varying degrees of success.
Last edited by ckon on Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by paulb » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:36 pm

+1
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by matjones » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:43 pm

ckon wrote:

Not talking bugs but I wonder how much time was wasted on also making an upload to soundcloud option in the export, I mean really?!.
I was just about to post something similar, it's not like the vast majority of us are unable to upload to soundcloud or any other web service, under our own steam.... i have the same feelings toward vst transit also... 1GB per month is bugger all to put it bluntly.... there are MYRIAD FREE web storage systems available... personally i have over 40GB (which cost me precisely ZERO) on skydrive or whatever it's called this particular nano second, and have been collaborating online for many years without feeling the need for anything else.... never used SC upload and probably never will.... i have the same feelings toward VST transit too!

Why not budget those Dev hours to sorting existing issues rather than introducing frippery and the potential for MORE issues within those?
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by GargoyleStudio » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:10 pm

I'll look at Transit of course, but I've been sharing projects using BitTorrentSync for a few years now, and an album usually stretches to ~150GBytes by the end. BTSync is a very good option for this because its not stored in the cloud but simply syncs between online computers so the space limit is simply the (smallest synced) hard disk size. I also use GoogleDrive and Dropbox occasionally, but storage isn't great on these - although both are bigger than Transit.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Pietronome » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:17 pm

+1
I don't have great issues with Cubase 8 but agree the bugs that are reported should be the priority before new features are added.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by S4410 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:31 pm

+1
I am with Cubase since day 1 (god i'm old..),have tons of third party plug-ins,all i need is a fast bugless DAW, i care less about new features.But i understand that they run a business and should consider new customers too.

On a different note, i highly expect Steinberg's new notation program and its integration with Cubase,any news on that?
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Winter Rat
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Winter Rat » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:41 pm

suntower wrote:LOL.

But... unfortunately you are incorrect. New users DO purchase a DAW based on the feature list. So, yeah, a new Synth is a serious DAW ATM. New users do -not- purchase based on the very user workflow stuff that you and I value. It takes a couple of -years- to learn what -really- matters.
New synth as a reason to buy a DAW? I’m not agree. The world has changed. Today new users have a lot info about anything they want to buy and of course they’ve heard about free stuff they can get to start with (I mean guys new to music at all). New PRO users like you and the others have all their synths already, so you need to see a different reason to switch from another DAW. And if we’re talking about VSTi’s, Cubase users have been asking for a sampler for a long time, so why another synth? And in the end of it all, if SB is so desperately sure that NEW SYNTH makes people’s day, so take an old one redesign the UI, give new name and that’s it – 5 minutes and voila - bestseller. If they save their time for something useful I will definitely forgive them this kind of cheating. ;)
New features are welcome and I like new features but only those that help me every day in making music or give me a better workflow... Take a look at Studio One’s Extended FX Chains – this innovation is for a DAW, but all Cubase’s “collaboration” stuff is for Facebook or Google or Skype… MIDI and Drum Editor enhancements are good but half-baked again. Please give me the ability to put my ideas into PC, let me do it easily and quickly and I will find a way to share it with the rest of the world. But nowadays SB supposes another paradigm: “your spade is broken but now it has a cell phone and you can call a man with the same broken spade. (but remember some knobs on the phone are broken either)”. Why? Why did they implement in MediaBay Rack those thumbnails for their own VSTi’s only??? Now I have to click Instruments Tab then HalionSonic SE Tab then HS SE Factory or Trip Tab and then start to search for a preset.

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Now a couple of words about business. Cubase is not a vacuum cleaner it’s even not MS Word. SB deals with creative people (btw they declare themselves as creative persons either). When I have to clean my house or work with some documents, tables, or charts I want to finish it as soon as possible because I don’t like this kind of work, so I don’t pay much attention to the tools even they have some bugs or shortcomings, the job has to be done and that’s it. But when I’m doing music production I wanna feel myself happy. Just watch some Pensado’s video when he’s talking about some stuff he says “I love this plug in”. I wanna feel the same about Cubase and I do. But I’m disappointed now because SB goes the wrong way. If they could release updates every month with at least 3 features I would love to have, and 10 features I don’t care of, (+ bug fixing) I would be happy and would not write all this…. But it takes years YEARS. It takes years to implement stuff that nobody asked for and then it takes years to eliminate bugs that come with that stuff. BTW so many little tweaks could be done almost with no time, because I can program them with AutoHotKeys, it’s about nothing….
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Blackout » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:33 pm

greggybud wrote:
Follow the money. It's not coming from pro users. It's coming from kids who want that "make me a hit" preset. And they want it now...screw the manual or even video tutorials.
Cubase is not a simple program (any more). anyone who tries to just use it and "screw that manual or even video tutorials" will not get far. Instead it is called "comprehensive". Im not sure if ANY program can be simple without needing a manual but "comprehensive" in this day and age. its one or the other. Personally i like the fact that Cubase is comprehensive.

kids that want that "make me a hit" preset use Abelton Live. its that simple.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by ckon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:21 pm

Follow the money. It's not coming from pro users. It's coming from kids who want that "make me a hit" preset. And they want it now...screw the manual or even video tutorials.
Forget Pro vs Amateur or the kids (amateur: meaning doing it for the enjoyment and passion and not for profit, some amateur work is even better quality than some pro etc) this is almost not relevant these days. Pro or amateur will happily pay if they can afford it, whatever the age range, (if it is available for free, many will happily take that too). The strength of word of mouth has never been more important to affect sales, happy customers will talk about it and encourage others to also enjoy what they have found.

If it is there then does it work correctly and if it does not, why not? there is nothing worse than a product that does not function correctly to affect sales. It will quickly out do the inclusion of any bells or whistles or the latest cool feature......(soundcloud export , VST cloud etc, etc). Look at the negative review sites for Hotels, holiday companies, delivery companies, restaurants they are all affected by negative reviews and it has never been easier for word to get around.

It would be a huge mistake for Steinberg to pander to the new generation of instant gratification. That is not to say elegant workflows that helps quicken work are not crucial but this is something different. Where does it end? Soundcloud is not guaranteed to be the future choice where people share their music, so what will Steinberg do now they have opened a can of worms, add every other music service to the Export options? completely unrealistic. They are effectively marketing Soundcloud as a service, did any money change hands?

Steinberg should concentrate on the fact that they are the authors of so many innovations in the Audio sequencer world not least VST. If however they are getting sidetracked by providing what they think the cool kids might want, things might be going a little off track. The 'Industry' has changed beyond all recognition in a very short time and technology moves at a rapid pace, get the basics right, protect and build on your innovations do things well, and retain as well as win new customers.

Personally I am trying to stand by the Software and the company I chose a long time ago over the competition becuase it just felt right to me.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by agilkds » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:03 pm

+ 1

i've installed C8.5 yesterday and played with it in the studio, till i get a phone call from my wife at 4.00 in the night.... there's a lot of exciting new stuff, but some of the more annoying bugs are still there.
I know it was not only a mere "cosmetic" update, it really has a lot of good new functionalities (being one of the the possibility to hoover the mouse to the edges of the windows to open or close tabs and function windows), but also the new time/pitch strech engine with is really good, and a lot of other things.
But the old bugs (mentioned earlier.... i'm not going to repeat them) should be in front of everything else.
New features are very well welcome, but please, fix the bugs before.
I would gladly prefer to wait one whole year before a new version come out (in Christmas 2016), than having new point version in six months just to get some small fixes and new looks.
Please SB take care of all your custumers
Merry Christmas to everybody :)
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by L.F. » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:07 pm

+10

Cubase is currently ahead of the competition when it comes to features, but far behind when it comes to overall polish. Not to mention that so many of it's features are great ideas, but unfinished and buggy. As someone who's used most of the popular DAW's on the market, using cubase is like walking through a familiar mine field; You know where the mines are, but if you drop your guard even for a second....disaster happens. Even though I find cubase generally stable, I know of at least a dozen ways to make it crash, all of which I have to constantly keep in mind, and more importantly, every time I try something new, or try to change my workflow a little, I run into a bug or problem. So unlike other DAW's on the market, which try to get out of the way as much as possible, in Cubase I have to always be on guard. And frankly, that is no way to make music... it really kills the spontaneity and inspiration.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by cpechet1 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:09 pm

L.F. wrote:+10

... it really kills the spontaneity and inspiration.
It sure does...
Cubase 10.1 Intel i7-5960x, Asus X99 Deluxe MOBO, 16GB DDR4, Windows 10 64, Lexicon PCM Bundle, RND Portico Bundle, Guitar Rig 5, RealLPC, RealStrat, RealGuitar,(really?), iZotope Ozone 5, Lynx AES16e x 2, Aurora Lynx 16 + 8, 2 x RND 5033, 2 x RND 5043, 2 x RND 5032, 4 x Neve 1272 (BA and Custom racked originals), 2 x Neve 1073 (Custom racked originals), API 512C x 2, Warm Audio WA12 x 2, Manley ELOP, JBL 4333, Spiral Groove Studio One, CMCs: 4 x FD, CH,AI,PD,TP, Avid Artist Control, Mix and Transport, Bryston/Carver/Phase Linear amps, Central Station, Tube Traps, 2 x various unremarkable guitars, A few decent mics.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Steve Helstrip » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:30 pm

L.F. wrote:+10

Cubase is currently ahead of the competition when it comes to features, but far behind when it comes to overall polish. Not to mention that so many of it's features are great ideas, but unfinished and buggy. As someone who's used most of the popular DAW's on the market, using cubase is like walking through a familiar mine field; You know where the mines are, but if you drop your guard even for a second....disaster happens. Even though I find cubase generally stable, I know of at least a dozen ways to make it crash, all of which I have to constantly keep in mind, and more importantly, every time I try something new, or try to change my workflow a little, I run into a bug or problem. So unlike other DAW's on the market, which try to get out of the way as much as possible, in Cubase I have to always be on guard. And frankly, that is no way to make music... it really kills the spontaneity and inspiration.
Well put. Wouldn't it be nice if you could just get on with your work without that looming crash... Aside from Cubase I use Ableton Live. I can count on one hand the number of times that has crashed in the past year. OK, it's nowhere near as complex, but sometimes that's what's called for.
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