why so many new versions so fast

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by mpayne0 »

I get both sides of this...

If you're a pro and your equipment doesn't work though, if it's preventing you from serving your customer, and you need to keep searching for fixes... I mean, you should take a look at yourself.

Keep it as simple as you need to keep your customer satisfied.
If that's a lifelong mission, you're doing something wrong, or perhaps in the wrong field.

Sometimes I chuckle at certain forums with people calling themselves engineers or musicians even, all they talk about are their tech issues day after day, year after year. Remind me not to use YOU when I need something. Some of these guys I have never read one sentence about the actual art. It's just a lifelong journey of searching the best plug-in, best setup, how to fix this and that. If you're making great art, you should be fine. This idea about last 3% or whatever... whaaaateva. Excuses.

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by sycophant »

mpayne0 wrote:Keep it as simple as you need to keep your customer satisfied.
What if the customer is the same person using the DAW?
mpayne0 wrote:If that's a lifelong mission, you're doing something wrong, or perhaps in the wrong field.
For me it is certainly that, and I could not work without Steinberg Innovations.

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by silhouette »

I'm not a "pro" whatever the hell that might mean. Actually the use of that term is quite frankly meaningless. If you mean that you earn your entire living from recording the music/spoken word of others then you might have a point. However I suspect that many "pro's" stretch that point to a considerable degree.

For the sake of argument then, to be a professional would suggest a certain reliability. For instance if I went a Lawyer I would expect them to know the area of law they specialised in. Likewise a plumber should be able to do the job and cope with whatever problem is thrown at him. I would certainly be fed up if I went into a studio and had to wait for an engineer to sort out software problems. Taxi drivers have to drive cars that have a record of reliability. To use the latest update on a session is asking for trouble. You have to put the time in to troubleshoot the new version and not introduce it to your clients until you are 100% happy that you know what it can and can't do.
Things go wrong in a studio - it happens. But if it goes wrong because you have not done your research then that is on you.

I have done a session recently and it was clear that I knew more about Cubase than the engineer, but because he knew exactly what he was doing and how to use the hardware and software at his disposal he produced a lovely recording and his client was really happy. Also it was a pleasure for me to be playing and be able to concentrate upon what I was there for.

What does this have to do with the frequency of updates?

Well we all have to balance what we are going to get out of it. For me as someone who enjoys the process of creating music and the learning when it comes to software, am quite happy to take the risk. For "pros" to complain about the difficulties it entails and the professional consequences, then I would just say be more professional.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Patanjali »

Just to take it back to the beginning:
Limit54 wrote:i like an update but honestly who wants to buy new upgrades every year. i was on 5 for like.a million years. now i.upgraded to 7.5 and that will be it.for a long time. i know steinberg needs to keep generating revenu but how about getting a stable version that is rock solid then on to the next. i dont have many issues with 7.5 but i have strange feeling that 8 will be out in a few months then 8.5.
just think its to fast.
Perhaps you are not spending enough time on actually doing music, but caught up in other aspects of your life? Perhaps you have lost perspective, because yearly is not that often!

Certainly, in the years between my wife's solo CD and when I started playing, we were in a sort of musical limbo, with IT work and other things being the focus and nothing happening musically. Then new Cubase versions seemed to come around quickly. No sooner had I done one upgrade, it seemed like the next one was out before we had got to use the previous one.

And that was the crux of the problem. Now that we have actually been getting music out, upgrades are just an activity that is scheduled between tracks. I don't get round to learning all the ins and outs, but just learn what will affect us, get an idea if there are any new things that we can take advantage of, and get on with the next track with the new version.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Limit54 »

actually no. i spend hours every day making music and really dont waste time.doing much else.i do however take.breaks looking at this forum and reading stuff on mixing and mastering. if knew how much time i actually spend making music over doing anything else you would be shocked. its the one and only thing that i.love.to.do. i hate upgrading because it usually stops me from actually making the.music.

anyway. all good points.here. thanks for the input. you guys have changed my mind about the.new version race.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by AP »

Cubase 5 and 6.5 are still very good DAW and can do a great job if need be. On the other hand 7.5 is amazing and has everything one could ask for. But I'm sure team Steinberg Yamaha think they can do better. It's like being a good musician or athlete and always staying a step ahead of the game by striving for excellence and enjoying the look on the completions face like :o How did they do that.

I was happy with 6.5 but decided to update to 7-7.5 because they were newer and cooler versions with a faster workflow. I can mix songs much faster now. Most of the times rough mix in an hour including variaudio 8-)
From an idea to completed song in 8 hours or less...

I'm very happy with 7.5 and I wouldn't want to mess a good thing. I'm sure some of you who don't have issues feel the same.

Take logic and Logic Pro X there was a few years in between versions now that's too long. Steinberg is keeping their tradition by releasing a new version and frequent updates every year at the same time keeping things fresh and exciting for us and if you're happy with your current version you don't have to update :D
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by sycophant »

AP wrote:I'm very happy with 7.5 and I wouldn't want to miss a good thing. I'm sure some of you who don't have issues feel the same.
No issues other than the way Key Edit and solo now works, but it simply means I need to think before I do, that is mute drum mapped parts beforehand as there is no unified way of dealing with differing MIDI track types together.

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by jpgtr »

AP wrote:if you're happy with your current version you don't have to update :D
The problem is that shorter upgrade cycles means more time is spent dreaming up and developing new and exciting features meant to sell users on the upgrade and far less time sorting out bugs and conflicts.

I believe a longer upgrade cycle would better serve customers as it would allow for Steinberg to test their app across multiple OS versions and garner plenty of user feedback regarding compatibility issues.

If it's a lack of revenue that's driving these shorter upgrade cycles, they need to expand their sales model beyond the traditional "box-on-a-shelf" or even website download and get Cubase into the mac app store.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by -steve- »

jpgtr wrote:
AP wrote:if you're happy with your current version you don't have to update :D
The problem is that shorter upgrade cycles means more time is spent dreaming up and developing new and exciting features meant to sell users on the upgrade and far less time sorting out bugs and conflicts.

I believe a longer upgrade cycle would better serve customers as it would allow for Steinberg to test their app across multiple OS versions and garner plenty of user feedback regarding compatibility issues.

If it's a lack of revenue that's driving these shorter upgrade cycles, they need to expand their sales model beyond the traditional "box-on-a-shelf" or even website download and get Cubase into the mac app store.
No other pro daw or notation package is made available there- Avid Pro Tools and Sibelius, Makemusic's Finale, Motu's Digital Performer, Studio One, and Reaper can't be bought at the Mac app store; it is not meant for $500 software packages. Refunds are not officially allowed, which would conflict with EU laws regarding the right to get a refund. Also App Store apps require an internet connection to run for the first time on a computer that was not used to make the purchase.

The update price on 3 year cycle would (in the U.S.) have to be at least $375 for major update, i.e., 6 to 7. And Cubase would be out of the public eye, since there would be no reason for the press to do reviews. The price of an initial Cubase purchase would probably have to go up too. None of this would help Cubase or us.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Patanjali »

Really, Cubase is already on a two year cycle for versions, with a mid-cycle fix/incremental upgrade.

And remember that while a version/upgrade comes out every year, the end-to-end cycle for each is much longer, because of the overlaps.

I'm actually pleased that adaptations are occurring with Cubase, but there are more solid patches appearing regularly as well. It seems much more responsive these days than when I first got SX1.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by sycophant »

Patanjali wrote:Really, Cubase is already on a two year cycle for versions, with a mid-cycle fix/incremental upgrade.
Personally, I can't wait for the next version to arrive.

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Patanjali »

sycophant wrote:Personally, I can't wait for the next version to arrive.
Me too. I can see that it is moving towards a more flexible visual and operational paradigm, and I am getting impatient with the delays in getting there, after so many years of relatively minor evolutionary 'adjustments' (though for some they may have been major).
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by sycophant »

Operational paradigm shifts are always exciting, but then we have the inevitable graphical rendering problems and workflow changes along the way (never show stopping).

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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by jaslan »

sycophant wrote:Operational paradigm shifts are always exciting, but then we have the inevitable graphical rendering problems and workflow changes along the way (never show stopping).
Is that you, Brains?
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by jpgtr »

SteveInChicago wrote: it [The app store] is not meant for $500 software packages. Refunds are not officially allowed, which would conflict with EU laws regarding the right to get a refund. Also App Store apps require an internet connection to run for the first time on a computer that was not used to make the purchase.
Avid is on the edge of financial collapse. Hardly a shining example of a 21st century business model. Behind Pro Tools, is Cubase and Logic Pro X. Guess which one is by far the most popular among the new generation of musicians and engineers? Do you really think Logic sells so well on price alone? Think again... People are willing to pay for a premium app, but not if they have to jump through hoops and navigate obstacles to purchase and use the software. (as compared to how they are used to buying software on an iPad or in the mac app store).

At any rate. Regarding app store model:

1. Developers can charge up to $999 for an app.

2. Refunds are allowed. You just have to ask. No where does it say that refunds are not allowed.

3. An internet connection? Are you kidding? Moot point. One is already all but required for registering Cubase, iLok, updates, etc.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by silhouette »

jpgtr wrote:
SteveInChicago wrote: it [The app store] is not meant for $500 software packages. Refunds are not officially allowed, which would conflict with EU laws regarding the right to get a refund. Also App Store apps require an internet connection to run for the first time on a computer that was not used to make the purchase.
Avid is on the edge of financial collapse. Hardly a shining example of a 21st century business model. Behind Pro Tools, is Cubase and Logic Pro X. Guess which one is by far the most popular among the new generation of musicians and engineers? Do you really think Logic sells so well on price alone? Think again... People are willing to pay for a premium app, but not if they have to jump through hoops and navigate obstacles to purchase and use the software. (as compared to how they are used to buying software on an iPad or in the mac app store).

At any rate. Regarding app store model:

1. Developers can charge up to $999 for an app.

2. Refunds are allowed. You just have to ask. No where does it say that refunds are not allowed.

3. An internet connection? Are you kidding? Moot point. One is already all but required for registering Cubase, iLok, updates, etc.
Well I can imagine the shock-waves going through the industry if Avid went under. We are living in dangerous times. All the assumptions about how we record and produce music and the equipment/software we use are hanging in the air. It is rather like the early 80's and the arrival of digital recording. Only a lot more confusing.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by AP »

jpgtr wrote:
SteveInChicago wrote: it [The app store] is not meant for $500 software packages. Refunds are not officially allowed, which would conflict with EU laws regarding the right to get a refund. Also App Store apps require an internet connection to run for the first time on a computer that was not used to make the purchase.
Avid is on the edge of financial collapse. Hardly a shining example of a 21st century business model. Behind Pro Tools, is Cubase and Logic Pro X. Guess which one is by far the most popular among the new generation of musicians and engineers? Do you really think Logic sells so well on price alone? Think again... People are willing to pay for a premium app, but not if they have to jump through hoops and navigate obstacles to purchase and use the software. (as compared to how they are used to buying software on an iPad or in the mac app store).

At any rate. Regarding app store model:

1. Developers can charge up to $999 for an app.

2. Refunds are allowed. You just have to ask. No where does it say that refunds are not allowed.

3. An internet connection? Are you kidding? Moot point. One is already all but required for registering Cubase, iLok, updates, etc.
Well Apple's revenue for 2013 was around $120. Billions. Yamaha's revenue was around $366. Billions and about 74% of that was from musical instruments. I think Cubase is here to stay :D
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by iBM »

Maybe Yamaha buys Pro Tools then?
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Limit54 »

no updates or new versions will ever give you the ability to make great music(if thats what you are doing). so for me i enjoy the new stuff but it doesnt do anything to get me.to number 1 on the.charts. thats my job. ill waste less time looking for new inovations and spend more time trying to make great music.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by AP »

Limit54 wrote:no updates or new versions will ever give you the ability to make great music(if thats what you are doing). so for me i enjoy the new stuff but it doesnt do anything to get me.to number 1 on the.charts. thats my job. ill waste less time looking for new inovations and spend more time trying to make great music.
A Daw is a tool. You also need talent and backing to get to #1. DJ Tiesto uses Cubase. Micheal Jackson used Cubase. Stevie Wonder used Nuendo. Teddy Riley used Cubase. Beck used a 4 track for his hit single, I'm just naming a few. Please stop blaming it on Steinberg.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Limit54 »

how did i even come close to blaming anything?? i was just stating the fact that it doesnt matter what yiu use u need talent...so the most advanced daw in tbe world wont help you.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Patanjali »

A good DAW can help talent to manifest better and/or sooner.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Limit54 »

Patanjali wrote:A good DAW can help talent to manifest better and/or sooner.

I think you mean a good preset.

But I still disagree with your stement.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by Patanjali »

Talent of itself is inert. It has to be applied.

If one wants talent to manifest as audio recordings, then a 'good' DAW can facilitate that.

The DAW becomes an tool of the operator. If the DAW has a design that the particular operator(s) can use efficiently in enough areas of the manifestation process, it may be said to be a good 'DAW'.
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Re: why so many new versions so fast

Post by jpgtr »

AP wrote:Well Apple's revenue for 2013 was around $120. Billions. Yamaha's revenue was around $366. Billions and about 74% of that was from musical instruments. I think Cubase is here to stay :D
If you're referring to the report linked below, software isn't even listed in the chart. If fact, under "net sales of Musical Instruments/Audio Equipment", I would presume it to fall under "others", which was the only segment to lose revenue that year ( -1.3) :o

If that's the case, the numbers don't lie; Steinberg's old school distribution model is skating Cubase away from the puck.

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