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broda_d
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aaf

Post by broda_d » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:23 pm

what about aaf import problem (from Avid)? is it resolved in N6?

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Re: aaf

Post by rperes » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:35 am

Sorry,what problem?
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Re: aaf

Post by ErikG » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:52 am

The big problems importing AAFs from media composer correctly!
MC is terrible. The result on import is clearly different depending on the version creating the export.

No it has not changed yet. Timo has already stated that they have created a AAF and metadata "task force".
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Re: aaf

Post by psvennevig » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:43 am

It is weird how different it can be from MC. I have complex AAFs that import 100% and complex AAFs that totally get scr... up.

It is of course important to export the AAF correct from MC. It is possible to export an AAF from MC that won't open in PT either.

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Re: aaf

Post by TimoWildenhain » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 am

Hello,

"aaf" issue is not something that can be "solved" as a whole, it requires constant further development
and adjustments to the import filter. We have created an AAF group that has started investing the different tasks.

We'll provide aaf updates to Nuendo 6 over the whole lifecycle.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: aaf

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:24 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:Hello,

"aaf" issue is not something that can be "solved" as a whole, it requires constant further development
and adjustments to the import filter. We have created an AAF group that has started investing the different tasks.

We'll provide aaf updates to Nuendo 6 over the whole lifecycle.

Thanks,
Timo
Good to know this is constantly being updated.
The biggest problem was that AAFs from older versions of MC would not open in N5.5 anymore.
Recently most of my customers seem to have updated their rigs.
Still it was the reason, why none of my Nuendo friends updated to 5.5x.
This really needs to work, so let's hope Steinberg keeps ahead of the game.

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Re: aaf

Post by broda_d » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:07 pm

This really needs to work, so let's hope Steinberg keeps ahead of the game.


problem with AAF import was posted 15 aug 2011

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=85915

It's over one year and AAF import still don't work.

N 5.0.1 sometimes is reading AFF, but if you have AAF with package of media (wave, aif - N5.0.1 can't read MXF files) and you can see "ghost regions" and even if you show folder with media, Nuendo can not reconnect it automatically...

For this moment is only one way to import AFF in Nuendo - open it in PT and export embedded OMF...

I'm in love with Steinberg products from Cubase on ATARI, and I really love most of nuendo solutions and I think you are making a really great job, but could you really make something with "THE AAF IMPORT"?
Avid MC is most common editing soft in the world after Apple stopped develop FC.

Guys I'm sorry, but I'm a little disappointed.

Best regards

Damian

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Re: aaf

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:42 pm

You know, as much as I like the concept of holding companies accountable for everything I think Steinberg is in a tough spot here. The best thing that can be done is to do regular maintenance updates to the AAF/OMF filter or whatever its called, and make those available to people. But they probably also need an infrastructure that gives programmers problematic .aaf's to troubleshoot.

My experience has been that some versions of Nuendo have given me absolutely zero problems. None. Others have been "iffy". But the same has been true on PT even, despite it being an Avid product.

What I found was the best option was to always write down the NLE and version number, so I always knew where the export came from, and then keep track of how import went. When it was at its worst I had a standard email that always went out before delivery of material, and the video editors always appreciated it. It stated clearly how to determine frame rates, bit depth/rate, video formats, and last but not least what to select when exporting. Too many young video editors in the field and have no clue. I get that everyone has to learn, but it's up to us to lessen our own headaches.

And as long as I did that it was never a problem. If they had an old system with crappy export filters they could just follow my footnotes and get it done without problems.

Perhaps we should pool our efforts and start two threads:

"Working aaf/omf import to Nuendo"
"NOT working aaf/omf import to Nuendo"

Self-explanatory I think. We could simply provide the export settings from the NLE in question and the import settings in N6 for each case. Then we'd all have a reference, right? And if we do, perhaps if someone has access to an NLE or friendly video editor willing to do a bunch of exports we could go through multiple settings. It's only HD space and time after all.

Something to think about maybe. Perhaps I can set something up.
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Re: aaf

Post by Brandy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm

I know this is OT and will not solve the issues as well as it has nothing to do with Nuendo:

But after I lost patience I stepped over AATranslator, this very nice application saved my but a couple of times in the past, beeing able to import AAF (coming from Logic) or PT session files and convert them to Steinberg XML - xml can be imported in Nuendo without a glitch. When coming from PT the xml even contains pan, level and automation from the PT session.
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Re: aaf

Post by John Lundsten » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:19 am

Lydiot wrote:You know, as much as I like the concept of holding companies accountable for everything I think Steinberg is in a tough spot here.
Very true, Avid MC AAF's are hard to read, IMO Steinberg Nu 5 - 5.5 does a better job of reading them than all the many other DAW's I've tried.

I'm one of the AATranslator developers http://www.aatranslator.com.au/ we have found Avid MC files contain lot's of 'private' code, this is allowed within the AAF spec, (as it is for OMF).
And it makes sense, Avid want to prioritize getting the best (in reality very basic) conversion between PT & MC, unfortunately for Avid these 2 apps are fundamentally different, (or fundamentally incompatible) so it's understandable they find it best to use loads of secret (no documentation available, private code). Ok this has the knock-on effect that the AAF's produced bear dam all resemblance to published AAF specs. Hey if one were paranoid it would be possible to believe this was deliberate 'spoiler' action.
Perhaps we should pool our efforts and start two threads:
"Working aaf/omf import to Nuendo"
"NOT working aaf/omf import to Nuendo"

We could simply provide the export settings from the NLE in question and the import settings in N6 for each case. Then we'd all have a reference, right? And if we do, perhaps if someone has access to an NLE or friendly video editor willing to do a bunch of exports we could go through multiple settings. It's only HD space and time after all.
Edited quotes
' write down the NLE and version number, and keep track of how import went. When it was at its worst I had a standard email that always went out before delivery of material, and the video editors always appreciated it. It stated clearly how to determine frame rates, bit depth/rate, video formats, and last but not least what to select when exporting. Too many young video editors in the field and have no clue. I get that everyone has to learn, but it's up to us to lessen our own headaches.
I like this idea, I've done loads of tests from MC exports, though often not knowing the exact settings used. So I'd love as detailed as poss data.
And yes it does surprise me how little most 'Image editing colleagues' understand; or how it's somehow the responsibility of 'Audio' folk to guide them.

But it may not be that simple to fully map MC to Stein compatibility.
From what I've gleaned. There is a lot of variation between various ver of MC, probably due to PT10 being clearly WIP, so massive variations to AAF are req/tried out.

But, OK, we like Steinberg know that AAF/OMF are 'important' Avid have convinced the World of this, so we do our best to accommodate these formats.
But at very best AAF/OMF are pathetically limited in their scope. They're about the same as the ancient CMX-edl format. FAR far better are formats like Stein XML, PT5 or PTF, AATranslator can convert between these.
AATranslator

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Re: aaf

Post by neilwilkes » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:13 am

Great post, John.
It really does sum up the problem that Steiny - and you guys - have here with people constantly changing & messing with what should be and is described as an open standard.

BTW - AA Translator is one superb tool as well, in case anyone here does not know of it.
It knocks the SSL ProConvert into a rock hat & should be an obvious tool in everyone's kit.
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Re: aaf

Post by rperes » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:52 pm

I work in a daily basis with AVID MC 5, 5.5 AND 6.
When exporting AAF from SD projects it's all ok but with HD projects MC 5 AAF I can´t open the AAF.

Just for the record
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rp
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Re: aaf

Post by ErikG » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:02 pm

When importing SD projects are you certain that both volume automation, clip level, pan and fades import correctly?
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Re: aaf

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:38 am

I did some more thinking about the issue of importing .aaf's and .omf's and I wanted to see how many would appreciate and participate in creating a thread listing successful and unsuccessful imports?

The thinking is that if we can compile a list we'd at least have a better chance of finding out ahead of time whether or not we're facing problems when interchanging media with editors.

But I think we'd need to figure out a procedure and a way to share the information that is useful.

My thoughts are that every time we receive media (or get access to it) we make notes of its origin NLE, version number and output options. Then when trying an import check some basics and then note specifically what doesn't work. We could report that in a thread and the thread-starter could reserve the first posts for updating the list of successes and failures.

But it's obviously too much for one person to achieve, so who would be up for helping out as much as possible? I volunteer to keep the thread up to date and clean if people help out with data gathering / analysis.
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Re: aaf

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:13 pm

TimoWildenhain wrote:Hello,

"aaf" issue is not something that can be "solved" as a whole, it requires constant further development
and adjustments to the import filter. We have created an AAF group that has started investing the different tasks.

We'll provide aaf updates to Nuendo 6 over the whole lifecycle.

Thanks,
Timo

When Is The Next Update?
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Re: aaf

Post by t2audio » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:36 pm

I'd like to be in the loop on this- thanks for you're effort.
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Re: aaf

Post by Dog and Pony » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Happy to help out, great idea. I have six AAF's from Avid MC that are working fine in N5.5 with the exception of not opening in the right spot on the timeline, not sure which version of MC but can find out today. john.
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Re: aaf

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 pm

Thanks Dog (john),

I can start doing at least a couple of tests tomorrow. I think there should be a sort of procedure for it but I'll start another thread for it if some other people jump on board.

Also a bit annoying that Steinberg doesn't set something like this up. After a brief flurry of forum participation after the launch we're back to normal it seems.
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Re: aaf

Post by Dog and Pony » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:02 am

In the project I mentioned, 5 of the AAF's opened perfectly and I had to use PT's to open the other 3 ( I ended up with 9). The editors are looking at it to figure out what they did differently and get me the Avid MC info/version. I can upload the AAF's if we have a place to put them, perhaps Steinberg could lend a little FTP space? Timo?
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Re: aaf

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Lydiot wrote:
TimoWildenhain wrote:Hello,

"aaf" issue is not something that can be "solved" as a whole, it requires constant further development
and adjustments to the import filter. We have created an AAF group that has started investing the different tasks.

We'll provide aaf updates to Nuendo 6 over the whole lifecycle.

Thanks,
Timo

When Is The Next Update of AAF/OMF import?
Well?

Is it too much to ask for an estimate of when these sorts of things will be addressed? I'd hate to have spent hundreds of dollars on your product only to wait indefinitely for it to import media correctly.
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