The World as ADSR Envelopes

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
Post Reply
User avatar
Stephen57
Senior Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by Stephen57 »

Hi,

This was interesting and I thought I'd share it here.

I've been working with synths, MIDI, basic audio for years, but not until Cubase Pro 8 did I put real time in learning to program synths. Naturally, this involves detailed work with ADSR envelopes.

Today, something clicked. I was out walking, suddenly :idea: , the whole sound-world became sets of ADSR envelopes. It made me stop in my tracks. I spent several minutes observing the sounds around me in terms of their natural envelopes.

I've had this kind of perception with pitch and time as long as I can remember, I call it the "symphony of the city," and every location has its "music." But this was specifically ADSR envelopes all around and the resulting wave forms. I'd hear a sound-source and immediately envision the approximate position of ADSR sliders for it -- with more sliders if the sound needed them.

Good thing, too, I found it easy to disregard this and not see "sliders" or wave forms for every bird chip, passing car, or whatever.

I yet have much to learn, but I arrived at some new plateau with this. It made me smile. :-)

Have you ever seen ambient sounds around you that way? I expect many have.

Working with Cubase these past years (Ver Pro 8 to my current Pro 10) has literally changed how I perceive the world around me. The posts here helped me get to this interesting point, so a collective thanks to everyone on the forums.

ADSRingly yours,

Stephen
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

User avatar
curteye
External Moderator
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by curteye »

What a kooool post!

I don't know how old you are (I am older than dirt) but your observations read like those of a 'fresh' new mind
and that is so beautiful to know.

And even if you are an older person, your unexpected new outlook on sound (envelops)
is encouraging that this whole 'music thang' will continue far into the future.

Musicians are a special breed for sure.


sending much aloha
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac 5K 4.2Gz 16GB
MBP 3.0Gz......16GB

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

User avatar
Stephen57
Senior Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by Stephen57 »

curteye wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:52 pm
What a kooool post!

I don't know how old you are (I am older than dirt) but your observations read like those of a 'fresh' new mind
and that is so beautiful to know.

And even if you are an older person, your unexpected new outlook on sound (envelops)
is encouraging that this whole 'music thang' will continue far into the future.

Musicians are a special breed for sure.


sending much aloha
{'-'}
Thanks. :-)

I'm of the older generation myself. I've worked in and around sound my entire life, but I'm mostly field production or producer, mostly recordist/mixer (that means we might use a limiter and low cut). We turn in tracks mixed by post-production engineers or sent live. I've done some music, always, but engineering at the level offered by Cubase has taken me to good, new places. I still have far to go but that's ok. This was something like tying your shoelaces for years without noticing how the knot actually works. It was a light thing not meat to sound overly profound. Just, "oh yea, nature is all sound envelopes." Good to hear your friendly comments and Aloha back to you. :-)

I agree, musicians are some of my favorite people, be they well-known or not.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Stephen,

The same thing happened to me about four years ago when I started listening intensely to 'mixes'. I was concentrating specifically on 'panning'. And one day, while waiting for a train, I heard all of the surrounding outdoor natural sounds in their 'pan pot' positions. It was a moment of epiphany for sure!

Best,

Paul
Yamaha DXR 10 (pair), Yamaha HS7 (pair), BeyerDynamic DT880 Pro (250 Ohm) headphones, Sennheiser HD440ii headphones, Sennheiser 599 headphones.

Sibelius 8.5, Cubase 9, HALion Sonic SE , HALion Sonic 2, HALion 5, Grand SE, Grand 3, Groove Agent 3, Arturia V Collection, EZ2 Drummer, Steinberg CI2+ Interface, Lexicon MX300, Midi Sport 2x2.

Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10 Professional, 1.70gHz, 16GB RAM, 64-bit, Intel Core i3.

User avatar
raino
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by raino »

Not specifically about envelopes, but similar for aural awareness.

When I was in collage I had a job at a plastics factory in their lab. Every morning I needed to collect samples from the various production lines - so I had this route I walked that went through a variety of aural landscapes. I started in our lab which basically sounded like an office space. Next was our lab's prototyping area which was 2 large rooms (maybe 50x100 feet each with 30 foot ceilings) concrete floors and hard walls. This was generally quiet ('cause usually nothing was happening) but my footsteps would echo. Then a quick dash outside to cross an alley into the factory proper. This sound changed a lot depending on time of year and weather. The first factory section was quite noisy, packed with machines rotating molds in tubs of hot water (making acrylic tubes - 10 feet long x 4" to 20" in diameter). You couldn't be heard here using a normal speaking voice. Next stop a room with about 20 large extrusion machines which squeezed out blocks and rods (1-2 feet across) of nylon & teflon like from a giant toothpaste tube. This room almost sounded quiet compared to the previous, but it had this low pitched electro-mechinical hum that was constant. Last stop was another fairly quiet and normal sized room with acoustics to match.

By having to repeatedly traverse this same sonic path I started paying attention and eventually came to understand how the acoustics worked in these differing environments and more importantly how to hear the "space" of a place. It was like taking a course in ambient acoustics.

At the time, and a direct result of the above, I though it would be cool to write a piece for someplace like a mall (remember those) where the same 'song' is playing everywhere but the instruments and arrangement would change depending on the shop - calming in the bookstore, sparkly in the jewelry store, energetic in the shoe store, etc. Then when you walked around the music would be both continuous but customized for the location.

Around this time John Cage came to our school for a lecture & a performance of one of his cut-up I Ching pieces. I think the factory experience opened the door to really hearing Cage's work.
rodger

Cubase Pro 10.5, Win10 Home, Halion6, Groove Agent 5, WaveLab Pro 10, BFD3, GPO, Komplete Ultimate 9, Waves Gold, Misc. other

i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX970, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2

Latest: Bawdy Politik https://rodgerraino.bandcamp.com/releases

User avatar
mhazdra
New Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:08 am
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by mhazdra »

Reminds me of Pauline Oliveros and "deep listening".

Thank you, everybody, for the inspiring stories.

User avatar
Stephen57
Senior Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by Stephen57 »

monsterjazzlicks wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:37 am
Stephen,

The same thing happened to me about four years ago when I started listening intensely to 'mixes'. I was concentrating specifically on 'panning'. And one day, while waiting for a train, I heard all of the surrounding outdoor natural sounds in their 'pan pot' positions. It was a moment of epiphany for sure!

Best,

Paul
That is very good and very similar. It's great when things like that happen. :idea:
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

User avatar
Stephen57
Senior Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by Stephen57 »

raino wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:37 pm
Not specifically about envelopes, but similar for aural awareness.

....

Around this time John Cage came to our school for a lecture & a performance of one of his cut-up I Ching pieces. I think the factory experience opened the door to really hearing Cage's work.
Great story. You were very lucky to see Cage in person. I know those works and I can see how the factory's soundcapes would relate to them.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

User avatar
Stephen57
Senior Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by Stephen57 »

raino wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:37 pm
Not specifically about envelopes, but similar for aural awareness.

....

Around this time John Cage came to our school for a lecture & a performance of one of his cut-up I Ching pieces. I think the factory experience opened the door to really hearing Cage's work.
Great story. You were very lucky to see Cage in person. I know those works and I can see how the factory's soundcapes would relate to them.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

User avatar
raino
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by raino »

Stephen57 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:56 pm
Great story. You were very lucky to see Cage in person. I know those works and I can see how the factory's soundcapes would relate to them.
Even better than that Cage was also there to interact with the students. So in one class we got to hang out with him for an hour asking questions and him telling stories.

The Cage biography "The Roaring Silence" by David Revill is a good read. Lots of interesting little bits, like Cage lived next door to John & Yoko and introduced them to the macrobiotic diet. But my favorite is from when Cage premiered his famous silent (not really) piece 4' 33" in Woodstock (the artsy town not the festival). Afterwards a local artist in the audience yelled "Good people of Woodstock, let's drive these people out of town."
rodger

Cubase Pro 10.5, Win10 Home, Halion6, Groove Agent 5, WaveLab Pro 10, BFD3, GPO, Komplete Ultimate 9, Waves Gold, Misc. other

i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX970, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2

Latest: Bawdy Politik https://rodgerraino.bandcamp.com/releases

monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

raino wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:27 pm
Even better than that Cage was also there to interact with the students. So in one class we got to hang out with him for an hour asking questions and him telling stories.
raino - Thanks, I was not aware of the Cage book!
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: The World as ADSR Envelopes

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Stephen57 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:52 pm
monsterjazzlicks wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:37 am

The same thing happened to me about four years ago when I started listening intensely to 'mixes'. I was concentrating specifically on 'panning'. And one day, while waiting for a train, I heard all of the surrounding outdoor natural sounds in their 'pan pot' positions. It was a moment of epiphany for sure!
That is very good and very similar. It's great when things like that happen. :idea:
Stephen57 - I am always trying to find parallels and similarities between MUSIC and every other factor of life...

Post Reply

Return to “Steinberg Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests