Reverb advice

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john springate
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Reverb advice

Post by john springate » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:16 pm

I've been using Wave Arts Masterverb 4 for many years but its finally looks as though its come to the end of its life as a 32bit plugin on cubase 9. Its been a while Ince of checked out the steinberg reverbs but I was presently surprised with what I heard. Can anyone advice me which reverb to use and what default setting would be best? Or is it simply a case of following my own judgment?
Cubase 9 iMac 2011 i7 16Gb Ram Steinberg UR22

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mroekalea
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by mroekalea » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:59 pm

Give us some specs, which version of Cubase are you useing for example and are you on MAC or PC?
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by john springate » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:02 pm

Hi Im using Cubase 9 iMac i7
Cubase 9 iMac 2011 i7 16Gb Ram Steinberg UR22

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by PeppaPig » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:04 pm

john springate wrote:I've been using Wave Arts Masterverb 4 for many years but its finally looks as though its come to the end of its life as a 32bit plugin on cubase 9. Its been a while Ince of checked out the steinberg reverbs but I was presently surprised with what I heard. Can anyone advice me which reverb to use and what default setting would be best? Or is it simply a case of following my own judgment?
The Cubase reverbs are very good these days, sonically up there with aftermarket reverbs. If you've got a powerful machine then the built in convolution reverb is superb as you can download plenty of first rate IR files free too.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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mroekalea
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by mroekalea » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:59 pm

Reverbs are a matter of personal preferences, I like the Slate Digital Verbsuite and the Lexicon native PCM reverbs.
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Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by PeppaPig » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:33 pm

Some great free Lexicon 480 IRs here: http://www.housecallfm.com/download-gns ... xicon-480l
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by mpayne0 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:53 pm

At one point Eventide had a huge amount of IRs. I have them somewhere on my HD, but I can't remember where I got them. There were a good variety of tones, hit or miss, very subjective depending on what you're looking for at the moment.

The bundled IRs were good too, but I definitely think it's high time they bundled up a new selection of IRs for Reverence.

I haven't used Revelation but for a few times, but it's pretty good too. I usually will hit Vahalla first though. For drum space, I prefer spatial IRs, and the rare times where I put reverb on a single hit, thats when I used Revelation, IIRC. I'd imagine Revelation could probably do pretty decent 80s drums!

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by neilwilkes » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:07 pm

Reverbs are so subjective it's just not funny and one mixers go-to is another mixers avoid at all costs.
What are you actually looking for? a general all-purpose or a specific type (ie plate), algorithmic/impulse type, DSP/Native, free/commercial (and budget).
more input really is needed or else this thread will run and run - I have many dozen reverbs and am still not totally happy with the choices I have, but that said these are my usual "go to" options (in no particular order except "as I thought about them":
UAD EMT 140 - great all-rounder, 3 plates, all sound quite different.
UAD Ocean Way Rooms - convolution in a new approach. I love this one.
UAD Lexicon 224 - a 70's classic now in software. Awesome.
Eventide TVerb - think "Heroes" vocal sound and ,much, much more
Eventide H3000 Factory - if you have ever used one in hardware you know where I am coming from
Waves H-Reverb - great hybrid reverb with beaucoup de options. Steep learning curve but great sound
Waves Abbey Road Plates - like the UAD but one more & Native, although VERY CPU hungry
Lexicon Native PCM Reverb Bundle - it's a software 96, so what;s not to like? 7 different verbs here
ReLab LX480 complete - a full recreation of the studio staple, this is a peerless recreation of the 480XL unit
ReLab VSR 24. New and wonderful.

There are certainly others that I either do not have or do not know about so I cannot comment other than to say try as many as you like until you find the one that suits your needs best
www.opusproductions.com
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john springate
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by john springate » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Hi Many thanks for your input neilwilkes thats quit a range of reverbs but interestingly no Steinberg reverbs mention :) Since staring this topic I have been playing around with the steinberg REVelation which I found to sound pretty similar to some presets on my old WaveArts Masterverb. So for now Im going to use this as my default reverb and see how I get on when it comes to doing mixes. I must say that steinberg reverbs have certainly come a long way!
Cubase 9 iMac 2011 i7 16Gb Ram Steinberg UR22

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by neilwilkes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:18 pm

Hi John.

I never mentioned REVelation because it comes under the general heading of "IR" or "Convolution" type reverbs and to be frank about it I have AltiVerb XL (which is also not in my main list either) which is to my ears far superior and moreover has an expanding library, so I kinda forgot all about REVerence. I have also had a lot of issues importing my own IR library into it so in all honesty had not even considered it until I just read your reply.
As this has come up, please can I refer you to my first point - reverbs are so subjective that one man's feast is another man's leftovers so all that really matters here is "does this work for you?" if the answer is "yes", then you have nailed it. That really is all there is to it.
Why have I not really mentioned much ion the way of convolution reverbs? The best answer is simply that these are by design an approximation of a room or a device usually created from a static sample (Dirac) or a sine sweep and I find that the IR versions are generally not a patch (pun unintended) on the unit or room they are imitating. The exception with Convolution type is the Sony DRE-777 hardware box and whilst there are indeed IR from this, they do not come close to the real thing. For another example I will mention the AltiVerb IR of the classic 80's box AME RMX16 unit, where I started a project using the AltiVerb IR but switched midway through to the UAD implementation as a full plugin (endorsed by and with the co-operation of AMS) which sounded - to me, anyway - infinitely superior.

The right tool to use is the one that works for you & allows you to get the job done.
Everything else is simply some other buggers' opinion.
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by PeppaPig » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:22 pm

My Reverbs..

Toraverb, a good alrounder and cheap too - if I'm pushed for time this is often my choice.
UAD-RealVerb pro - the boggo UAD reverb - I actually quite like it for vocals or glue.
Yamaha Rev-X reverbs (came with UR44) I think the plate is good on male vocals.
FogConvolver an excellent Convolution reverb with plenty of sound design tricks up its sleeve.
Evantide TVerb - I love it as a room reverb, it claims to be low in CPU usage but sadly, it hammers my system - reverbs tend to be floating point calculation heavy - which isn't a good bedfellow with AMD FX CPUs.
PSP Pianoverb, great for adding something magical to string sounds.
PSP SpringBox - a fantastic spring verb, I love it on drums even though everybody and his cat says don't use springs on drums.
NI RC24 & RC48, the Lexicons the whole world raves about - I obviously don't hear what everyone else is hearing coz I don't like 'em! except...
PSP 2445, this sounds wonderful - the reverb tails just melt into a mix. Dunno why - it's voodoo! I've got good results on most sources.
Protoverb - I've acidentally had good results with this using the randomiser.
AIR Reverb/Non-Linear Reverb - both sound ordinary to me.
AIR Spring - doesn't get a look-in with SpringBox about.
Steiny's Roomverb - gets fired up occasionally - a perfectly decent reverb - it's just I have other options. I used to use SE a lot on individual instruments - these days I tend to send to a "glue" reverb. (Always TVerb if I can afford the CPU on that project - UAD when I can't.)
There are probably 5 or 6 other reverbs I have which I've forgotten about - in which case no point mentioning them! - They can't have been that memorable :-)
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by mpayne0 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:32 pm

PeppaPig wrote:My Reverbs..


UAD-RealVerb pro - the boggo UAD reverb - I actually quite like it for vocals or glue.
Yamaha Rev-X reverbs (came with UR44) I think the plate is good on male vocals.
I like both of these as well. Real Verb for it's sources and surfaces, it's more of a spatial sim. Worked well when I used it, but it's been awhile.

The RevX (from the Yamaha N12) is also nice IIRC. It's been awhile. I wished they had it in plugin form. Heck, I'd take that one knob sweet spot comp while I'm at it!

VSS is nice in theory, but it really requires time and carful A/Bing. It can make things worse. I wanted to find a way to run a drum kit thru it.

neilwilkes
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Re: Reverb advice

Post by neilwilkes » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:07 pm

PeppaPig wrote:My Reverbs..

Toraverb, a good alrounder and cheap too - if I'm pushed for time this is often my choice.
UAD-RealVerb pro - the boggo UAD reverb - I actually quite like it for vocals or glue.
Yamaha Rev-X reverbs (came with UR44) I think the plate is good on male vocals.
FogConvolver an excellent Convolution reverb with plenty of sound design tricks up its sleeve.
Evantide TVerb - I love it as a room reverb, it claims to be low in CPU usage but sadly, it hammers my system - reverbs tend to be floating point calculation heavy - which isn't a good bedfellow with AMD FX CPUs.
PSP Pianoverb, great for adding something magical to string sounds.
PSP SpringBox - a fantastic spring verb, I love it on drums even though everybody and his cat says don't use springs on drums.
NI RC24 & RC48, the Lexicons the whole world raves about - I obviously don't hear what everyone else is hearing coz I don't like 'em! except...
PSP 2445, this sounds wonderful - the reverb tails just melt into a mix. Dunno why - it's voodoo! I've got good results on most sources.
Protoverb - I've acidentally had good results with this using the randomiser.
AIR Reverb/Non-Linear Reverb - both sound ordinary to me.
AIR Spring - doesn't get a look-in with SpringBox about.
Steiny's Roomverb - gets fired up occasionally - a perfectly decent reverb - it's just I have other options. I used to use SE a lot on individual instruments - these days I tend to send to a "glue" reverb. (Always TVerb if I can afford the CPU on that project - UAD when I can't.)
There are probably 5 or 6 other reverbs I have which I've forgotten about - in which case no point mentioning them! - They can't have been that memorable :-)
Tverb is awesome - no doubt about it at all, plus I find it works well in conjunction with others (UAD EMT 140 for example) without cluttering or muddying things up.
I understand you don't like the Lexicon's but have you tried the others out there? I do not like the NI versions much either & greatly prefer the ReLab LX480 and the PCM Native Reverb/Effects bundle as well as the UAD 200 XL - these all have different characters and are essential for the authentic vintage sound (along with the UAD RMX16)

I tend to forget about RealVerb Pro - it's a leftover from "Kind Of Loud" after they were bought out by UAD way back in the days when the UAD-1 was new and the LA-2A still did not yet exist - I still have my original card with the version 0.9 software that had what? 6/7 plugins? These days it's 158 separate DLL files (not counting the separate mono versions) and expanding all the time. I must give it another look - my usual vocal go-to is the EMT 140 or the LX480 complete, with the PSP 42 for delays or if a more complex one is needed the Boz Imperial Delay but that is a whole new thread. You can never really have enough reverbs - I am not sure there is such a thing as one for all jobs (my VST reverbs list is silly these days and I rarely use most of them but keep them in as you never know what a mix will need until you fire up the multitracks. Sometimes the oddest things are just what is wanted.
www.opusproductions.com
Intel E5-2687W 8-core Xeon, 32Gb RAM, Windows 7 Pro x64, RME RayDAT, UAD-2 Octo x2 & Quad x2 (fully loaded), Adam A7 x5, WK ID Console
Nuendo 1-6, Cubase 6-7, WaveLab 5-7, DTS/DD encoders, Surround Edition etc, Waves Mercury
Blu-Ray authoring, DVD authoring & high resolution audio specialists.

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by PeppaPig » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:36 pm

33% off PSP 2445 at the moment: http://www.pluginboutique.com/deals/show?sale_id=3000

Anyone after a superb EMT reverb for just £80 the 2445 is hard to beat, also PSP's Springbox is just £23.50p a fantastic spring reverb that boings away with the best of them!
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: Reverb advice

Post by PeppaPig » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:45 pm

neilwilkes wrote: Tverb is awesome - no doubt about it at all, plus I find it works well in conjunction with others (UAD EMT 140 for example) without cluttering or muddying things up ..(snip).. my usual vocal go-to is the EMT 140 or the LX480 complete, with the PSP 42 for delays or if a more complex one is needed the Boz Imperial Delay but that is a whole new thread. You can never really have enough reverbs - I am not sure there is such a thing as one for all jobs (my VST reverbs list is silly these days and I rarely use most of them but keep them in as you never know what a mix will need until you fire up the multitracks. Sometimes the oddest things are just what is wanted.
I forgot about the UAD EMT140, which I do have, it IS excellent, but, PSP2445 usually gets the nod over it on vocal duties, I don't know what it is but the 2445 just sounds better to my ears, but the UA EMT140 is a cracking reverb, when I'm struggling for CPU and don't want to muck around with RIP or bouncing the tracks, I'll fire up EMT140 as a replacement.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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