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Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:05 pm
by gwpt
Hi,
I currently own both Halion 5 and Groove Agent 4, which appear to be the main products in Absolute 2.
Does anyone know if there is a way to upgrade to Absolute 2 if you own this? i.e. is there a discount?
Cheers

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:39 pm
by strat1962
I'd be interested in this upgrade too if Steinberg would offer a route from Halion 5 & Groove Agent 4, I also own HSO full.

Any possibility Steinberg?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:29 pm
by jimzepellin
Just been thing about this myself. I've got money burning a hole and I may have went for a deal if it was there. Maybe someone with a brain cell might start working this idea soon.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:33 pm
by folkfreak
I own Absolute collection 1, Halion 5 and GA 4

For what I would get with the upgrade price it is way too expensive for me.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:39 pm
by Dewy75
It is disappointing this can't be like waves, where you can get discounts based on the products you already own. I was thinking about buying groove agent, but I'm not going to buy it now that they've released Absolute 2 and i already have Halion 5.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:33 am
by MrSoundman
I'm wondering about this too .... I've paid a lot more over the years for the individual items, but still don't have all of them, and would be interested in some kind of discount offer. Makes me feel like my investment has lost its value ..... :cry: This, combined with the fact that iC Pro for Android was simply discontinued a few weeks after I bought it, with no offer of compensation, makes me feel more than a little unhappy with Steinberg's marketing policies.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:37 am
by gwpt
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this!

Any chance of a response from Steinberg?? I assume you read these forums...

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:18 am
by Brian Roland
A pretty important question in my mind:

If one gets the Absolute 2 package, do they all share a common key, or does each plugin get its own?

With the Absolute 2 package, could I get a second USB key and split the licenses across different machines? I.E. run Halion 5 on a second machine acting as a VST server, while running Groove Agent on the main DAW PC, etc.

To date I've gotten all my Steinberg plugins separately, and intend to keep them licensed separately, since this way I know each plugin gets a code of its own that I can put on the USB key of my choice and run on different systems. It may cost a little more this way, but I think I might be getting a bit more freedom in how I deploy the various plugins this way. Am I mistaken?

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:54 am
by jaslan
Brian Roland wrote:With the Absolute 2 package, could I get a second USB key and split the licenses across different machines? I.E. run Halion 5 on a second machine acting as a VST server, while running Groove Agent on the main DAW PC, etc.
I don't believe so. I have the Absolute (1) package and it is a single license. I am speculating, however....

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:46 am
by Romantique Tp
I don't think the eLicenser database had to be updated for this. I'm assuming they give you a single license code that grants separate licenses for each VST this time, instead of a single one like Absolute 1 did.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:20 am
by Matthias Quellmann
Hi all,

There are currently no upgrade paths from HALion or any other VST instrument to Absolute 2 available. We have been discussing this issue intensively, but unfortunately it is just not possible to offer upgrades for all kind of products and combinations. I understand that there are customers like you who already have several of the products included in Absolute and who feel excluded by Steinberg right now. But as you know there have been several sales promotions for all of our instruments in the last couple of years with similiar rebates like the Welcome Spring Offer, the Valentine's Day Promo or the Black Friday sales activities. So even if the Absolute collection doesn't seem to be as attractive to you as it is for other customers, there will definitely be more chances for you to participate in sales promotions of equal value in the future.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:48 am
by gwpt
Hi Matthias,
unfortunately, you are correct and i do "feel excluded by Steinberg right now" and believe this to be a pretty poor attitude to have towards paying customers who have already been loyal, in some cases, for years...

Why is it not possible to offer upgrades? You make the statement, yet there is no follow up to why...
I can imagine dozens of ways to achieve this. Here is a very simple one, which would appear fair to all:

1. Sum the total cost of all products in Absolute 2.
2. Sum the total cost of the products owned by a user (you can do this based on who has registered their products)
3. divide 2 by 1 to get a fraction of what the user owns.
4. multiple 3 by the cost of Abolsute 2 and this is discount to apply to the loyal customer.

PLEASE reconsider!!! there are many of us who already feel let down by this...
Native instruments provide crossgrades to Komplete, so isnt realistic to expect the same from Steinberg..
thanks

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:10 pm
by MrSoundman
I understand what Matthias has said to mean "we couldn't be bothered trying to figure that out".

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:16 pm
by vespesian
gwpt wrote:Hi Matthias,
unfortunately, you are correct and i do "feel excluded by Steinberg right now" and believe this to be a pretty poor attitude to have towards paying customers who have already been loyal, in some cases, for years...

Why is it not possible to offer upgrades? You make the statement, yet there is no follow up to why...
I can imagine dozens of ways to achieve this. Here is a very simple one, which would appear fair to all:

1. Sum the total cost of all products in Absolute 2.
2. Sum the total cost of the products owned by a user (you can do this based on who has registered their products)
3. divide 2 by 1 to get a fraction of what the user owns.
4. multiple 3 by the cost of Abolsute 2 and this is discount to apply to the loyal customer.

PLEASE reconsider!!! there are many of us who already feel let down by this...
Native instruments provide crossgrades to Komplete, so isnt realistic to expect the same from Steinberg..
thanks
Seriously. It's actually counter-productive. Why is SB driving away customers? :roll:

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:44 pm
by Romantique Tp
Driving away costumers by offering 1000 USD worth of VSTs for 500?

In my opinion, they should offer discounts for the following combinations of VSTs already owned:

1) Halion 5
2) Halion Sonic 2
3) Groove Agent 4
4) Halion 5 + Groove Agent 4
5) Halion Sonic 2 + Groove Agent 4

Mostly because these VSTs are expensive and were released fairly recently. Just a small discount should be enough to stop users of these instruments from feeling left out.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:07 pm
by folkfreak
As an owner of Absolute 1 + Halion 5 + GA4 I definetly won't pay the same price as an owner of Absolute 1 only.
A seasonal discount that would apply to everyone again would make no difference as I had to pay the same as the ones with only Absolute 1 also there.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:30 pm
by Brian Roland
vespesian wrote:
gwpt wrote: Seriously. It's actually counter-productive. Why is SB driving away customers? :roll:
I think you make some good points and if *Steinberg* is wise, they will listen to you, but:

How is offering different sorts of packages, bundles, and introductory deals at various price points driving away costumers? I see it as a good sign that Steinberg sees the value in reaching out to potential new users.

I'm personally jumping for joy that they aren't taking the Avid route, and moving to a licensing style that would pretty much put me out of business if I kept using their tools (I have to work on a 2 to 3, and sometimes even 5 or more year upgrade cycle, and must do it with block grants that do not promise X amount per 'month'). As much as I liked using Sibelius, I'm going to have to give it up at the point I need to move on from 7.5. I'm getting really anxious to see what *Steinberg*/Yamaha have on the horizon for high end scoring modules. After so many years, I can honestly say that I just have to be vigilant...there can be many cycles in the market place where upgrading would be brutal for me, so I just have to write letters to the right people and wait for a cycle that I can pounce...sooner or later they get around to a package or format that I can afford and commit myself into implementing.

At least right now with Steinberg, I can buy my keys, deploy and use them however and as long as I like, and choose when and where I decide to upgrade. They make it super easy to roll back to even ancient versions if I need to do that for some reason. Selling, loaning, or giving away my key is something I can mostly control myself (where competitors often don't allow it at all, or make it so bureaucratic to transfer licenses that it's often not worth it). I can always re-download stuff for any of my keys (even really old legacy stuff). The USB key helps keep me in check, so I spend less time worrying if my system is legal, and more time making music. If the key/licenser lets me do it...I know I'm deploying in a legal and ethical way. If it doesn't allow it, that's my cue that I need to call Steinberg to get the right solution for my needs.

Be patient, they will soon cook up a deal of some sort to benefit whatever type and size of Steinberg customer you happen to be. This company has been around long enough to understand, value, and take care of every single type and level of customer it has.

People pay less for things weeks after I did all the time. No matter what I buy...be it a car, a hammer, or a new trombone...there's always a chance it might cost less, or more than I paid in tomorrow's marketplace, or it might even be deemed totally obsolete.

I see it for what it is....the company needs more sales on the title to boost revenue streams and grow market share. They're watching the current market trends and spending habits of both their current users, and the potential new customer. If they succeed in boosting sales, then the title is all that much MORE valuable, as that means Steinberg will be that much more committed to supporting and improving the product.

Boo hoo, the new guy got a little better deal than me on some aspect of his studio. That's life sometimes...at the time I got the product, I needed it, and saw some kind of value in it that pushed it higher on my list among the competing products. I found the price fair enough to buy it so I did. So someone else got a better deal some weeks later...good for him! I find great deals that others don't get sometimes as well.

If they succeed in boosting sales, it will ultimately benefit me as well. This means more users, more initiative for further/faster development, and better assurance of long term support for my investments.

Even as someone who got his plugins separately (some on special offers, some at full retail price), I still see the bundle offer as a win win. I can see a point in the future where I might actually need a bundle like this in ADDITION to the plugins I already own (more keys for more machines/locations).

The bottom line is that nothing is free. Companies need revenue streams to stay alive. No sales, means less money coming in, so products and services have to be scaled back or discontinued.

Radical marketing moves forces competitors to also make radical moves, and it can also change the expectations of consumers in ways that could lead to mass bankruptcy for an entire industry if not managed wisely.

In short, the guys doing all the finite math calculations have more information than I do. They're not always going to make the best predictions, and their conclusions aren't always going to lead to moves that will immediately help 'me'. but I do know they can do a heck of a lot better at predicting the market place than I can.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:43 pm
by jaslan
Nicely said, Brian.
Every since the arrival of the internet and Google, so many people presume to know better how a company should be run and how they should market their products than those working at the company whose jobs and livelihood actually depend on the success of the company.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:58 pm
by vespesian
Romantique Tp wrote:Driving away costumers by offering 1000 USD worth of VSTs for 500?

In my opinion, they should offer discounts for the following combinations of VSTs already owned:

1) Halion 5
2) Halion Sonic 2
3) Groove Agent 4
4) Halion 5 + Groove Agent 4
5) Halion Sonic 2 + Groove Agent 4

Mostly because these VSTs are expensive and were released fairly recently. Just a small discount should be enough to stop users of these instruments from feeling left out.
Well - they drove away this customer (i.e., me). And I 'm sure I'm not alone. Can I get an amen?

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:10 pm
by Brian Roland
jaslan wrote:Nicely said, Brian.
Every since the arrival of the internet and Google, so many people presume to know better how a company should be run and how they should market their products than those working at the company whose jobs and livelihood actually depend on the success of the company.
Indeed...

I'm glad that they voice their opinions and needs. It lets the marketing folks know what sorts of packages to build. Some just do it with the foresight and maturity of a 13 old who thinks the entire world has the same needs and functions in the same sort of budget cycles as they do. Oh yeah...."The entire world revolves around ME!"

Oh well...13 year olds spend money too :)

For those with jerky enough knees to change platforms every time they feel life has been 'unfair' to them....they're going to waste a heck of a lot of time and money, but it's their time and money to waste :)

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:17 pm
by vespesian
Brian Roland wrote:
jaslan wrote:Nicely said, Brian.
Every since the arrival of the internet and Google, so many people presume to know better how a company should be run and how they should market their products than those working at the company whose jobs and livelihood actually depend on the success of the company.
Indeed...

I'm glad that they voice their opinions and needs. It lets the marketing folks know what sorts of packages to build. Some just do it with the foresight maturity of 13 olds who think the entire world has the same needs as they do, and revolves around them.

Oh well...13 year olds spend money too :)

For those with jerky enough knees to change platforms every time they feel life has been 'unfair' to them....they're going to waste a heck of a lot of time and money, but it's their time and money to waste :)
Um, I'm 52 and have been cheap from well before the advent of Google and the internet. I don't think this offer is "unfair".. . it's just too damn expensive, especially I already own like 3 of those vst's.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:28 pm
by Brian Roland
vespesian wrote: Um, I'm 52 and have been cheap from well before the advent of Google and the internet. I don't think this offer is "unfair".. . it's just too damn expensive, especially I already own like 3 of those vst's.
If you already have them, then you have them. The bundle isn't really going to apply to you unless you need more duplicate keys all the way around anyways. I personally wouldn't mind having a second H5 key...it'd be quite useful for me...but I can't really afford it right now so I'll wait, and I likely would be far more tempted to go with some other product over getting a second H5 key. I like that they now have a bundle that can better compete with the Komplete 10 lineup, that includes all those products. It's a nice future option for me if I ever decide to pull the trigger, and the fact I might could get a second H5 key in the deal would be gravy for me! I.E. I'm not likely to buy a second copy of H5 for its own sake. Instead, I'd go get Mach 5, a box of Vienna sounds, or whatever. I might however buy a bundle with some duplicate keys to stuff I already have in order to get other things Steinberg that I don't have (HSO, The Grand, some of those Yamaha vst plugins, etc) , and take advantage of a second H5 key :) I can also trade or sell keys for the 'independently licensed plugins' I don't plan to use, no?

In your case, push for a deal on what ever plugin you don't have, but would like to acquire.

I looked at options when I got H5, and believe me, it wasn't an easy decision to go with H5 given the robust competition out there.

Point for point, I could easily give several other products far more 'value points' if I simply made a list of them all. The problem was...the other products had a lot of points I don't need, while H5 had the few that I do, along with some benefit of some features or workflow options that the others don't have at all.

To get the 'value' however, the competing companies also wanted to sell me about 60 other products that I don't really want/need, that would also have required me to invest in some more hardware to even consider implementing it properly.

Kontakt by itself, without getting some $500 bundle (great stuff...but don't really need or want most of it) was about the same price as H5 (if I waited till the annual new year sale NI always has..otherwise Kontakt would actually cost more). I kept watching both...knowing that eventually one company or the other would run a sale on just the bits I need. Etc...

In my case, H5 and GA4 integrated into Cubase 8 just did a few things that the others don't do AT ALL (Note Expression, surround sound sampling through the daw...pulling in instant rendered 20+ track soundscapes as a single 6 channel surround sound sample, etc.), that happen to fit my needs. The workflow in H5 and GA4 when combined with CuBase/Nuendo is simply amazing (in my subjective opinion). That, combined with a well timed promotional sale, was good enough to convince me to pull out my credit card :)

If you want to soundscape on the fly....plan to work with surround sound or other multi-channel formats, resample any number of tracks/waves/vstis all in a single pass (instantly actually) and further trigger/layer/process them on the fly....H5 inside CuBase/Nuendo is just an amazing tool for that sort of work-flow!

In contrast, if you want 'stereo or mono sounds in a box', (presets that someone else has pre-produced for you)....H5 currently probably isn't going to be a best value for that sort of user. It's also probably not going to be the engine of choice for someone who wants to 'make sounds in a box to sell/share with other users'. Steinberg could change all that and build onto the Halion engine so that it trumps all others on all fronts...but to get more motivated, and better funded to do that...more H5 sales would help :)

As for GA4....in my opinion, that's just shaping up to be one of the coolest MPC plugins out there. It's fun and easy to use...ESPECIALLY if you're running it through CuBase/Nuendo. If someone likes and needs a good MPC engine...GA4 is robust enough to hold up to it's current price point...at least for 'now'.

Every product isn't going to be for everybody...at any price point. We as users just have to map out what we want or need, and shop the deals that fit us at the time we're ready to buy.

Sometimes, we find ourselves in a position where there isn't really much competition...you go with what's there and pay what they ask for it, or you do without.

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:22 pm
by Matthias Quellmann

Re: Upgrade to Absolute 2 from Halion + Groove Agent?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:01 pm
by vespesian
Matthias Quellmann wrote:Change of plans. All details at

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 59#p479337
Thank you!!