"Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

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avviano
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"Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by avviano » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:20 am

This is a simple one: If you enter a value in the field within the "tempo" column in media bay, you cannot later delete the entry nor can you set value to 0.

Recreate bug / issue:

1.) Open Media Bay
2.) Choose folder that contains samples
3.) Enter "110" in a field within the "tempo" column for one of the samples.
4.) Try to delete the entry you have just made.
5.) Deleting the entry is not possible
6.) Setting the entry to 0 is not possible.

Workaround: The only workaround, is to change the entry to another tempo (1+). I haven't found a way to delete the entry. If you entered a tempo value for a sample that does not have a tempo by mistake (say e.g. a one shot sample) you're out of luck.

Cheers.

(my setup: Windows 10, Cubase Pro Version 9.5.41 Build 287).
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by avviano » Mon May 13, 2019 2:02 am

Anyone? I just upgraded to Cubase 10 and the issue is still there...
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by SouthFresh » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:06 pm

avviano wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:20 am
This is a simple one: If you enter a value in the field within the "tempo" column in media bay, you cannot later delete the entry nor can you set value to 0.

Recreate bug / issue:

1.) Open Media Bay
2.) Choose folder that contains samples
3.) Enter "110" in a field within the "tempo" column for one of the samples.
4.) Try to delete the entry you have just made.
5.) Deleting the entry is not possible
6.) Setting the entry to 0 is not possible.

Workaround: The only workaround, is to change the entry to another tempo (1+). I haven't found a way to delete the entry. If you entered a tempo value for a sample that does not have a tempo by mistake (say e.g. a one shot sample) you're out of luck.

Cheers.

(my setup: Windows 10, Cubase Pro Version 9.5.41 Build 287).
I might be late to the party, but if you open the Attribute Inspector you can right-click on the tempo to remove the value.

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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by avviano » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:24 pm

Thanks for the workaround. I will try it next time I tag my samples. I hope I don't forget to go into the property inspector next time round.

It would be nice if removing the tempo tag would work also directly in the column field, especially when you want to remove tempos for multiple files in one go. It should be fixed, as it is definitely a bug.
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

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Cubase, Media Bay: "Tempo" value in Search Result list cannot be deleted.

Post by avviano » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:53 am

Unfortunately, that did not work for me. When I right-click tempo in the attribute inspector, I only see "remove attribute" as a possible option, but this will remove the tempo attribute itself. I only want to remove the tempo VALUE. This doesnt work, neither for individual nor multiple entries, both in the search result list or in the Attribute Inspector. At least for me. It is also not possible to leave the field blank or to enter 0. Nothing works. All I can do is enter "1". Please submit bug report, so this is fixed.

Another problem that keeps coming up in Media Bay: Every time I click on tempo tag in the search result, this annoying window keeps popping up. It then freezes until the "drop-down" pop-up window has finished collecting all possible tempo field values. I think this makes sense for some fields, but doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever in the tempo field. At least I cannot really think of a reason why anyone would want to choose a tempo from a potential list of 200 values in a drop down menu? I think this feature is pretty useless and a real workflow obstacle. I have to click 3-4 times until I can finally enter the value directly. It's pretty annoying if your tagging large libraries...

Problem No. 3: I create sample libraries commercially, so I have to deal with large file depositories (500 to 600.000). In many of my file names, I have tempo and key information. When tagging multiple files, I search for all files that have a certain key, e.g. "A" or "B" key in the filename and so on. The key is usually in the file name with underscore as the separator, which would look something like this _A_ . For some reason, Media Bay simply ignores the underscore and then whips out all filenames with "A" in the name. Which is pretty much every filename on my hard drive. I would really appreciate if this could be fixed. As this absolutely does not make any sense "by design". At least not too me. Because of it, I cannot use Media Bay to add key tags. As a work-around, I have to use complex RegEx Expressions (which I developed over the years) to mass rename files. Of course, it would be much easier if Steinberg gifted MediaBay with an Auto-Sensing feature, whereby loading samples into media bay would automatically sense tempo, key and genre information and write this into tags automatically. As an alternative, It would already be helpful, if Steinberg could also add the already existing "Get Key from filename" feature in Halion 6 to the Media Bay, as many samples have this information in the filename. For older samples, the auto-sense feature would be best. I have recently posted a feature request here: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=169890
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by currentsound » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:36 am

There might be some 3rd party software that can do what you want in the mean time? I use Mp3Tag on windows to batch rename Mp3s for DJing. It also does wave files. It has a BPM field. I don't know if Cubase tags the files in the same way that would be compatible with Mp3Tag but if it does, you could technically batch wipe all the BPM tags in Mp3tag until Steinberg decide to implement a better way to do it within Cubase?

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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by avviano » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:32 pm

MP3Tag does exactly what the name implies, it tags MP3 files. I am referring mainly to lossless formats such as WAV or AIFF. Or better the Broadcast Wave format, as the standard WAV format does not permit tagging. MP3Tag cannot auto-populate root-key or tempo, neither through auto-sensing nor through referencing the filename. You would have to manually type those fields, although you can do it (manually) in bulk, which I can also do in Media Bay. What I'm referring to, is a true automatic tagging process for Broadcast Wave and Aiff files in a way that will be compatible to Media Bay's database.

The only software that I'm aware of, which has a half way decent algorithm for auto-sensing tempo and root key from the actual content of a file (and not just by referencing text in file name) is a software called "Mixed in Key". But it has one catch, it can only write tags to MP3 files, not Broadcast WAV, which makes it useless for professional or studio use. Hence, the software is mainly used by DJs who mainly use MP3s.

There is a work-around though, but it is not ideal at all, as it takes time and necessitates multiple steps: "Mixed in Key" can also write root key and tempo information directly into the file name. Which I have done, but then you then need to 1.) rescan and 2.) still manually tag the files in Media Bay, looking at the samples' file name. Changing files names can have legal implications for some licensed libraries, which I do not want to go into know.

Anyway, the actually tagging would still need to be done manually. Then I have exactly the issue that I described above, as you CANNOT use underscore in search strings in media bay. Searching for something like _A_ or _B_ (and so on) will in fact look for any letter A or B. This makes it useless for narrowing down your search results and subsequently for (manually) bulk tagging multiple files. Media Bay ignores underscore in search strings. But that's how "Mixed in Key" alters the filename. So when you are attempting to transfer a key from file name to tags in media bay, you can only do it if you re-arrange the actual file name again. That is exactly the issue here.

So to answer your question, there is no 3rd party option that solves this problem right now.

Only option is to use "Mixed in Key", change the filename and then employ complicated RegEx phrases in a software called "Bulk Rename Utility" to alter the filename AGAIN, eg from _A_ to [A] so Media Bay will allow a search. For some reason Media Bay include square brackets in the search but does not include underscore. The whole process of filename change is a little more complicated in real live and you need to employ Regular Expressions Syntax to get the job done (since filenames will have multiple underscores, as well as multiple infos that need to be transferred, such as tempo, key, categories aso. The list of my RegEx expressions that I have developed over the years for bulk renaming audio libraries hast 35 pages.

"Mixed in Key" also lacks as it can only write tempo AND root key into the file name. Only tempo does not work. So when you are analyzing rhythmic content, such as percussion and drums, "Mixed in Key" will also try to auto-sense the root key, which of course is nonsense. It then either writes nothing into the filename (as it cannot recognize the root key, it will also drop the tempo) or it writes the wrong root keys. You are then left with files names that are total garbage.

Changing file names and tags of 500.000 and more samples is very hard and time consuming work and currently employs multiple steps. It would be a lot easier and a huge time saver, if we had auto-sensing in Media Bay for professional formats such as Broadcast Wave and AIFF. Any organization that has to process large libraries of audio files (e.g. library of congress, national libraries, the broad-castings industry, sound archives and many more) will have this problem. Media Bay is 90% perfect for the job, but it lacks those essential remaining 10% to get it done quickly.

BTW, I have used MP3Tag before, but only MP3 files. But again, it's not suitable for the kind of work I am doing. Thank you for your comment...
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

https://www.avviano.com
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Re: "Tempo" column in Media Bay / Delete not possible!

Post by avviano » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:54 pm

Update: New library manager software with true auto-sensing capability has just been released. Its called Sononym. It automatically detects tempo, key and category of your samples based on the actual content of the file (sound) not file or folder name or tag info. That's huge, because it has true auto sensing capabilities. It's currently available as a standalone software, but the company is working on a VST version. Of what I have seen so far, its algorithms are very accurate. Probably one of the best sample library manager currently on the market. It basically organizes your sample library automatically with a push of a button. https://www.sononym.net/ - Media Bay is still very powerful when it comes to tight DAW integration, but Sonoym has great potential. As the name implies, it can also match similar sounds based on the actual sounds (NOT TAGS). I was pretty impressed, because it has all the features that I would love to see in Media Bay. It's UI is also spot on...
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS7 W, Yamaha Subwoofer, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

https://www.avviano.com
https://soundcloud.com/avviano

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